Game Tools Development Team

[kryton9]

I would like to collaborate with a team of those interested in putting together classes to make game programming even easier and maybe a way to work out a system where by we could write classes and tools to help our development and by working as a team our efforts would not overlap and work together.

I still got lots of learning to do about OOP, from all the reading I have done on the subject, I realize you just need to put the time in and to develop experience. Parker has been helping me on coding monkeys forum and I am starting to really see how we could put together a really great set of tools and classes. If we had someone with Parkers level or OOP programming guiding us.

Here are some ideas I have:

First is to make a CurrentObject Class. The CurrentObject would be like the 'This' pointer is within its own class. But we could assign any object to the CurrentObject and do what all we would like to it. This way we could write standard classes using the CurrentObject and know that all we would have to do to tap into all of the methods within any class written using the CurrentObject would be to just assign OurObject to the CurrentObject.

Another idea is to develop different control systems for players. I sort of started on this, but know it would be lots funner to work with a team. These would be just one command to implement this type of player input.

1. First Person Style Controls WSAD control forward,backward, left and right movement. The mouse is like your head and you can look in any direction and then by moving forward move in the direction you are looking. Then there are all the keys to control Jump, Use, Run, etc.

2. A simple control system just use arrow keys and some keys for like pause, reset etc.

Another idea is to make just one command that sort of creates a whole 3d screen that works. Then all the programmer would need to do is add the objects they need. And the single control to determine what type of control they want.

One more thing we definitly need is some sort of system to find out what graphics the users system can handle and then set our fullscreen mode accordingly or to offer a simple choice for selection they would like.

I have many more ideas, but don't want to make this too long... just want to see how many would be interested and if so, then maybe we could form some ideas and foundations of terminology and naming etc to base all our work on and how we would split up the work to get as much done as quickly as possible. But making sure all our stuff worked together.

[J B Wood (Zumwalt)]

I am a pure amiture but I will help where I can.

[kryton9]

By the demo you are doing, you are more than that, but nice to be modest.

We can give it a few days and see who all else would like to join and then figure out who knows most about OOP to set the way. I know it will be fun to work as a team, we can get so much more done that much quicker.

In the meantime, trying to make a simple model with simple animation to test out the new animation available in skinnedX loads. Just have to refigure out the settings in Panda exported for it.

[Zen]

I am a little tied down at the moment and i dont really know a lot about 3D programming but when i have some time ill definatley give it a go. Im all for community projects etc.

Lewis

[Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)]

I would like to help - not very well versed in game programming but willing to help.

[J B Wood (Zumwalt)]

Just as a note, you don't have to know anything about game programming to help, most of the classes that need to be built don't require knowledge about games, just about programming logic and concepts for general programming.

All a game is, is the visual representation of the logic.

[kryton9]

That is great that we got interest and it can be for 2d games too. Just a way to work together to build common things we can all use and future users can use.
As Zumwalt said, you don't need to know about games but more programming and I know I need help with OOP, so anyone like Zen and Parker would be very helpful in guiding the rest of us new to this style.

Well guys think of your ideas and things you would like to see and maybe we can start laying out a framework, and then let the one with the most OOP knowledge sort of layout some direction and then we can pick up stuff we are interested in and put some cool things together.

This will be lots of fun, glad there is some interest!!

[Todd Riggins]

I will be doing a lot of catch up learning with programming with Aurora and getting the feel how it works. Since I see that some of the 3D commands that I have added from the old IBasic Professional 3d Pak has carried over to the new 3D command set for Aurora... I can at least create some examples on it's use and go on from there. One area I want to contribute is to create a 3d collision system using ellipsoid to poly detection in which I would prefer for use with 3d games. The opcode collision library doesnt support ellipsiod collision last time I checked. Plus, I need to start work on a 3D level editor I've keep putting off.

I love doing 3d stuff and will try to help out when I can.

[kryton9]

Great Todd.

A level editor is something I think we all would love to work on as we all could use it.ÂÃ,  It really makes for a common place to put the tools we would need.
I have used the unreal editor, it is really nice, but there are things of I don't care for either. Here is an interesting editor:
http://freeworld3d.org/   I did play with DelebD too. 

But with OOP, we should all be able to work on parts of it and have it all fit together.

On another note, Sapero made a bunch of Windows API thingies, sorry still not up on all of this stuff, but he also has OpenGL and some examples. I am going to really look at all of this stuff this weekend.

http://www.ionicwind.com/forums/index.php?topic=633.0   If you guys haven't looked at this post, I think it is worth a look and to get the includes and examples. Sapero is doing lots of cool stuff with Aurora already.

[kryton9]

Larry you have lots of programming experience and knowledge I think it is great that you are interest too. I know we will all have fun working together!!

[kryton9]

Also, Larry and Zumwalt have websites already. I haven't set mine up yet, and probably won't for awhile as just too much into Aurora and studying the modeling in various applications.

Maybe if they wouldn't mind, we can setup a working area for our group. Maybe a database or way to keep the latest code in one place type of thing. Larry, you and Zumwalt probably have better ideas of how all of that works. Would love to hear your guys thoughts on what we could do to manage and make this thing run smoothly.

[J B Wood (Zumwalt)]

oddly, I don't use either of my sites much at all, just to post downloads to free up bandwidth for other sites like this one of anything I do
Here is what got me though, since I posted my first tank run on here, it has racked up a gig of bandwidth in the little time its been available to download.
the way traffic is monitored on my site, its filtered by unique ip hits per month, so that gig is unique hits per month
shocked me

[Todd Riggins]

kryton9, are you wanting to make more game related functionality for the existing Aurora 3D library or are you wanting to create a brand new 3d game engine? You mentioned saparo's opengl stuff, so I assume there that this has nothing to do with Aurora's 3D library? Aurora's 3D library is using DirectX so Im not quite sure why you are interested in opengl. Why not continue to help Aurora's 3D community?

I guess I dont understand fully what you are wanting to do here. ÂÃ, 

[kryton9]

Not what I want Todd, sorry for the confusion. Just wanted to mention that there is a lot with Aurora already with those files by Sapero to look at. We could get ideas of how things are implemented and use that move our thoughts and discussions and planning further.

There was a discussion in the file formats thread or the 3d engine thread, forgot which, but an overwelming majority wanted all original Aurora stuff from Paul. So I think that is what the consensus would be here.

Once we get a little more organized and Paul gets caught up with his documentation and any fixes he needs to put in we could even start talk about his file format he was thinking of putting in.
Right now it is all in the air, just want to get a group together first and we can all decide what everyone wants and what direction we go.

Paul is going to implement all that he can for directx from my understanding in his engine and Aurora, when all is said and finished.

Would love to hear more of your thoughts as I know you did a lot with Ibasic Pro and 3d.

[kryton9]

zumwalt, that is amazing traffic like you said.  Do you have a high enough bandwidth per month. I know Larry had a pretty high bandwidth alotted. I will probably go with the same company he is going with eventually hosting. Seems like a good deal.

[J B Wood (Zumwalt)]

I got 50 gig a month per site on the outsourced hosted sites.
I have 1 personal site at my house for developing, and no bandwidth limitations.
(ok only upload and download speed limitations, but no set limit on packets per month)

[kryton9]

Cool, thanks, can see what Larry and others might say too and then maybe figure out how we can put this together to have a good work space to work from and be efficient and up to date.

[Zen]

Kryton, regarding your PM. Thank you very much. I will have a think over the next few days regarding "framework". I have designed lots of framework based applications in the past, non have ever been used for anything other than my own personal use apart from the odd one or two frameworks i have made for website stuff. I have no experience in game programming, i know its all just logic but i will have a think or some ideas of how it can be structured etc.

Lewis

[kryton9]

Glad you can help Zen. No need to really think about it yet as we need to hear from the others and decide which way we will go and then you can start thinking and planning.

I think Todd's idea of making a level editor would be the ideal approach as all the tools we could ever want for game development could be put into it.

Here is a list of what I ran across that the Unreal Editor provided:

1. First you carve out your space. In unreal instead of everthing being empty and you adding things, it is all solid and first you carve out your space. Then you put things into fill the space, make the level that is. I really didn't care for this approach, although I am sure there is a reason why they chose to do it this way. I did read why, but forgot as I didn't care for it.

2. You created brushes, with which you could build 3d Objects. You could also import in your own meshes. This made the level faster.

I would just imagine our group would rather start with an empty space and bring stuff in as we need it Or, develop the tools required to build the parts as we need them.

3. Everything you added into a level had a sprite or object to represent it, like lights, triggers, waypoints, paths, particle emitters, spawn locations, and game objective objects.
4. You could also use assign the camera to any of these to help you position any of the objects and orient them easier, a really great feature.
5. You then built the level, which created the light maps to all the surfaces and launched the level to test it out.

Of course there are many details to all of the above, but it gives an idea of what to think about and start talk on it.

Do we try to build one editor for all game types or make it modular so we could develop editors focused for each game type?
Do we build separate modeling tools or build it into the editor?

Also in building levels that are terrain, it would be neat to be able to make caves, overhangs, something that most world builder don't provide. You need to use an outside 3d modeling package to create it and then import it in.

Of course some of this really advanced stuff, that we might not get to for some time, but just wanted to bring it up. Do we just stick to using outside modeling packages, or try to make one ourselves to use Paul's file format?

Lots of cool things to think about and to discuss, before we start planning I guess.

[MikeHart]

Hi folks,

is the team complete or are you still looking for help?

[Steven Picard]

Mike, I am quite sure they need additional help, especially with your expertise. 

I would like to help but I am so new to 3D that I am going through modelling tutorials right now.  I'd be interested in eventually writing a front end for creating specific types of games like an FPS creator (like this http://www.percsich.hu/silentwalk/index.php?page=home) or a Shoot 'Em Up Construction Kit like the Amiga had but in 3D.

[kryton9]

First off, Hi Mike, glad you are interested as reading about your stuff on coding monkeys, I know it will be great working with you.

The group is in the ooze state, no solid direction or form, just waiting for bubbles of ideas and then maybe a structure or framework we could coordinate efforts, so would love to hear ideas about that too.

I did finally get a domain and webspace, I can devote a section for the team to be the coordinating point there or if whoever sort of becomes the lead of the team, and they have a website, well it would make sense to use their site then.

Here is a first draft of thought I had, I am totally open to any suggestions or better methods:

1 Our members login.

2. There will be a database. There will be categories of features, this can be added too by members. Within the categories, feature items to the list of features wanted or needed, would be added.

3. Then members could go in and mark which feature they are tackling, if another member is interested in the same feature, they can mark their interest, then those members can coordinate how they will solve the feature. Only feature actively being worked on will be marked, when completed, it will say completed and documentation for it will exist on how to use the feature in code with an example.

4. Before any coding, we would need to establish a framework of how our code would mesh. This is ahead of me at the moment, but will leave that to others with more knowledge to recommend ideas.

I already know that you Mike, Todd and Zumwalt have more knowledge about this stuff than I do. I just want to be part of a team and to get ideas flowing.

Paul knows what Aurora's eventual capabilities will be, in a way it would be neat if he headed the group or at least gave us some direction in saying well, here is what will be a part of Aurora, you guys can then do these things as they will not be a part of Aurora. Then with that we can build the framework as I outlined above in steps 1 through 4 in this message.

The other thing is Sapero already has shown stuff with his Windows Includes that covers some ways to tie into other engines. And use a lot of resources out there, but I couldn't figure out how to tie his stuff in. Eventually his includes will be a part of Aurora. Todd has the IDGK for iBPro, I know Mike you have some Paks for sound and graphics. Zumwalt is working on many things with physics and already tied into 3dimpact engine.

Also Kale already has written a nice routine for getting display info from the user's computer. So, I know on the forums we got stuff all over, and it would be nice to sort of go over those, and like I said what is there, will be and what we need to work on.

THere is a lot already out there just not in one place and to see where there is overlap and where there are blanks. Hopefully we can iron out that stuff in this thread too. No need to do duplicate work.

That is it from me for now, let me know of any other ideas or ways we could go about this.

[J B Wood (Zumwalt)]

I am currently studing up on Ageia's PhsyX engine and how to impliment it in Aurora, plus a few other things, kind of waiting on the next release of Aurora for a few reasons which will help me with what I am currently up to. Been in a dry state and hopefully will ramp back up by next weekend.

[kryton9]

Z, what do you think of PhysX so far, the demo vids and screenshots look awesome from it.

[J B Wood (Zumwalt)]

Its wickedly stable, the amount of poly collisions going on at any one time is insane without loss in framerate.
Try doing some of the same things in ODE and you will go south on FPS fast.