IonicWind Software

IWBasic => General Questions => Topic started by: Andy on December 26, 2021, 02:10:19 AM

Title: Time tables
Post by: Andy on December 26, 2021, 02:10:19 AM
Well I've had lots of time due to my bad back to read through the two working time tables produced by British Rail dated 1956 & 1963.

These time tables were not for the general public but issued to employees. They show lots more information such as:

Where a train has come from / going to
Where it stops or simply passes by
When a freight train has to stop to put the brakes on (wagons)
If it's a steam loco, where / when it takes on water
Shows empty trains moving from one place to another
It even show movements of engines on their own

Plus a few other goodies e.g. DMU means diesel engine, route code e.g. 1H56, class of train e.g. 1 or A etc.

Under the title "Workdays" meaning Monday to Saturday (Sundays are always shown separately) you will also see things like SO (runs Saturdays only), and an "X" means does not run on that day e.g. MX - everyday except Mondays. 

Now my idea is to write a program that has the time table data in it and you could select a railway station e.g. Accrington, for "Tuesdays" click a button and it would list all train movements at that station going in all directions that day.

What would your approach be regarding storing the time table data - bare in mind I might have to include some text / notes for certain train times e.g. Stops at Accrington and moves to platform 2 to unload parcels.

See attached map and a page of one of the time tables (1963).

Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: LarryMc on December 26, 2021, 11:00:15 AM
I would build it as a database
 your record would consist of everything in the columns
 where you need the thext string (2nd row) if it's always lest then 255 characters it can be a string field; if it might be over 255 then make it a memo
where there is that same sort of entry down where the times are suppose to be hust add 2-3 strings/memos on the end of the record to hold those.

Then make you a popup menu with all the city names. Pick a name from the popup and us that as an index to seach the database to see if there is a time enterd in each record at that index +offset. If yes there is a trrain going through that city...pull the record for display.
Pretty straight forward db setup.
Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: billhsln on December 26, 2021, 11:44:50 AM
Need lots more info.  What are the codes across the top?  2J76, 1J09, etc?  What does the D3 stand for?  Are you going to keep the 1/2's (if not then the time can be stored as 18:30, otherwise we need 18:30:30, I doubt that they would be that accurate all the time, just not possible.  1J09 column has a spade symbol, what is that for, does it need to be tracked?

Does the 'Whitehouse West Jn. arr. 8.4, dep. 8.5' need to be some where?

What other SO, SX, MO, MX, etc?

You can use the code at the top and create another for the rows for a single table with the descriptions.

2J76,D M U B2,
2J70,D M U B7 to Manchester Vic,
0K67,7.50 am L E from Lostock Hall C.S.,SX

I am more than happy to help with the DB side of things.  What DB are you thinking of using?

Just a thought too, check boxes across the top for days and the map showing, so you can click on the city on the map to then show the schedule.

Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: Andy on December 26, 2021, 10:38:31 PM
Thanks guys.

Bill, I would gladly accept any DB help!

There would be a few one to many relationships here:

1 DB to many time tables
1 time table to many routes
1 route to many stations
1 station to many trains etc.

To get a better understanding of what you're looking at I need to explain a few things...

The front few pages are important, one page (attached) is a key to some of the letters & symbols.

This WTT (working time table) is from 1963, now you are probably not aware of this but in 1963 BR (British Rail) were in the middle of replacing their 20,000 steam locos with diesel and electric engines, a process that took years to do.

So this WTT is a mix of steam & diesel trains.

When you read each column it's very important to start at the top and work your way down. Unless otherwise stated, each train runs daily at the times stated.

The (for example) 2J76 is a head code displayed on the front of each engine and is broken down like this:

2 stands for a class 2 train (stopping passenger train)
J is the area where it's going i.e. North Manchester
76 is the route number - all routes are numbered

The were 10 classes of train by the way.

If in the column it does not state DMU or EMU then this train is pulled by a steam loco.

DMU (diesel multiple unit) E is the same but it's electric.

Other common abbreviations:

L.E. (light engine), an engine on its own i.e. not pulling anything.

E.C.S. (empty coaching stock), basically an empty train.

Train time extra info:

Accrington 7V32 am, meaning it arrives there at 7 32 am. Further down the column you will get some text like "V - moves to platform 2 to unload parcels"

Bottom line is there is a lot to read in these WTT's, even I had to ask for help!

Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: billhsln on December 27, 2021, 04:02:34 PM
I am guessing there are more sheets like the one with the time table or does that one cover the entire lines shown on the map.

Thinking 1st table has the info coming from the columns that are consistent.  Code from top column will be the key (2J76).  2nd table for the rows, thinking a number (key) and the station name.  3rd table will have the cross of the 2.

1st Table Columns (might need to split this up more (I don't understand all the codes)
2J76,DM U B2,D3,
OK67,7.50 L E from Lostock Hall C.S.,SX

2nd Table Rows

3rd Table cross
2J76,5,06:35,text if needed

Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: Andy on December 27, 2021, 10:04:39 PM

Thanks for that, there are 4 routes and for each route there are several pages listing the train times like this:

Route 1
Page 1 to 5  From town A to town B
Page 6 to 10 From town B to town A

Route 2
Page 11 to 14 From town C to town D
Page 15 to 18 From town D to town C etc...

I think the focus should be on the station itself for this reason:

Station A might just have one railway line going through - in other words it's only shown on one route... however station B might be a place where two lines converge.


Accrington station had trains going East to West and vice versa - one route, but it also had a railway line coming up from Manchester too going South (a second route).

Take a look at the map again I posted at the start of this post - look for "Accrington".

Hope I've made this slightly clearer than mud!

Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: Brian on December 28, 2021, 03:56:03 AM

How are you going to transfer the information from the graphics into the database? Just wondering . . .

Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: Andy on December 28, 2021, 07:14:44 AM
Mr Muggins is going to have to type it all in manually - unless you know an easier way?

Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: Brian on December 28, 2021, 08:20:33 AM
Well, I had a look, and saw this:

Open up your graphic (F6.jpg), press Windows Key + s. Bottom right of the search window, there is an icon, Search with a screenshot

I drew a bounding box round the first column of text, copied the result, and came up with this:

Hall Royd In. .... ...
Copy Pit . . ... . . . . .... . .

. . .de
Brierfield .
Burnley Barracks . . . ...

Gannow In. ..
Rose Grove . . .. .. . . . .ar
Rose Grove West . .. .. . .
Padiham ..

. . ............
ACCRINGTON . .. .arr
. .de
Church and Oswaldtwistle
Rishton . .
Great Harwood Jn. .. . . . . .
Daisyfield Jn.

BLACKBURN..... . .arr
Mill Hill . .. . . . . . . . . .. ..
Cherry Tree
Pleasington . . . .. . . . . . ..

Bamber Bridge
Todd Lane Jn.
Whitehouse South In...
Whitehouse North Jn. ...
. .arr

Obviously a bit of editing to do, and might need working on the technique . . .

Title: Re: Time tables
Post by: LarryMc on December 28, 2021, 10:40:03 AM
Based on your stated objective:
you could select a railway station e.g. Accrington, for "Tuesdays" click a button and it would list all train movements at that station going in all directions that day.
your output would look considerably different than the single "from" town to single "to" town in one direction chart with multiple trains page you posted initially.
Now you are talking multiple towns, with multiple trains, and in multiple directions.

And, by putting it all in the big database as I mentioned earlier with an added field for inbound/outbound designator.
you search db for town and day and find all trains with entry designator. Then get next town from db for display.