IWBASIC 64

[CodeTRUCKER]

Does anyone know if IWBASIC is or will be capable of creating native 64-bit programs?

[Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)]

Yes - already looking into it.

Larry

[CodeTRUCKER]

Yes - already looking into it.

Larry

Alright!  That's good news!  By the way... have you had a chance to read my contribution to your original "Thinking" thread?

[Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)]

Read your post - finally responded there.


Larry

[Logman]

Good to hear IWBasic will finally (or eventually) go 64-bit.

Like Trucker, I responded to your "Thinking" thread. Very interesting proposition you propose Larry.

Logman

[Barney]

This is good news. Of all the languages out there IWB is one of the closest to my heart but I was forced to move to those languages which are giving me 64-bit option. With all the 64-bit capable processors available for quite a few years now, I was actually wondering (still do) why we keep producing 32-bit stuff. Totally unnecessary I'd say (but that's my opinion only). Perhaps with 64-bit option IWB would become much more interesting to a larger number of potential users. Time will tell.

Barney

[Ficko]

With all the 64-bit capable processors available for quite a few years now, I was actually wondering (still do) why we keep producing 32-bit stuff.

I answered to a simile statement on a different board so this is a copy/paste.:

The wheelbarrow is 3000 years old and we are still using it.

PCs are only a small portion of machines using CPU.

If you choose a CPU for a microwave or a washing machine you donââ,¬â,,¢t even think about 64-bit more likely about 8-bit like "80C85".
Even the Mars Pathfinder was happy with its ââ,¬Å"RS 6000ââ,¬Â clocked with 20 MHz because you have to keep power usage on a minimum.

By the decision there are several factors:

1.)   What speed the machine is required to react to input signals.
2.)   How big are the memory requirements
3.)   Price
4.)   Size
5.)   Power consumption
6.)   Heat emission.
7.)   Etc.

Not only:ââ,¬Â Let use the fastest, biggest newest hotrod can be acquired on the market. ââ,¬Å"
Likewise if you wanna carry some cat food bags to your garage you donââ,¬â,,¢t use a ââ,¬Å"Bucyrus RH400ââ,¬Â.

[billhsln]

I have 3 PC's in my house still running Windows XP and 1 Laptop with Windows 7 x64.  I need the capability to run programs on all my machines, no matter which one I write the program on.

So far, I don't even know what the advantage would be to use x64, all I have found is that it there seems to be not a whole lot available for it.  So it is basically putting people on the bleeding edge of technology (bleeding your bank account), without too much return for your investment.

Bill

[Barney]

The wheelbarrow is 3000 years old and we are still using it.

Wheel itself is older and we are still using it.
But I don't see the connection with the 64-bit version of IWB...

PCs are only a small portion of machines using CPU.

Agreed, but as far as I know we are discussing IWB here and IWB is language built for PCs, not for other machines.

If you choose a CPU for a microwave or a washing machine you donââ,¬â,,¢t even think about 64-bit more likely about 8-bit like "80C85".
Even the Mars Pathfinder was happy with its ââ,¬Å"RS 6000ââ,¬Â clocked with 20 MHz because you have to keep power usage on a minimum.

See my answer above...

Not only:ââ,¬Â Let use the fastest, biggest newest hotrod can be acquired on the market. ââ,¬Å"
Likewise if you wanna carry some cat food bags to your garage you donââ,¬â,,¢t use a ââ,¬Å"Bucyrus RH400ââ,¬Â.

Where did I say that?
BTW. 64-bit capable CPUs are neither fastest, nor the newest "hotrods" on the market. Just take a look at Intel's or AMD's specification lists. One can get the 64-bit CPU for very small amount of money.
I don't have garage so your comment about food bags is irrelevant.

I have 3 PC's in my house still running Windows XP and 1 Laptop with Windows 7 x64.  I need the capability to run programs on all my machines, no matter which one I write the program on.

Fair enough, but the way I see it you are limiting yourself with 32-bit program running on your x64 machine. Also, it is not that expensive to upgrade your systems to 64-bit Windows 7.

So far, I don't even know what the advantage would be to use x64, all I have found is that it there seems to be not a whole lot available for it.

Sorry if I sound rude because that is not my intention but if you call yourself a programmer you should be able to understand all the advantages of x64 computing. Your second sentence just proves it. Take a closer look at Internet and you'll be surprised with a plethora of applications you'll find there just waiting for you.

So it is basically putting people on the bleeding edge of technology (bleeding your bank account), without too much return for your investment.

Hmm... it seems our definitions of "bleeding the bank account" are totally different, which is kind of odd as I am coming from a country where average salary is around $800. Definitely not a lot of money. People here (with average salaries) are purchasing computers quite capable of running 64-bit OS's and applications and they don't consider it "bleeding" their bank accounts. So, please, don't give me that kind of argument against using modern technology. It just does not work...

@Ficko and @billhsln

Gentlemen, it is your way of thinking that actually stops us (or at least it slows us down) getting into the new technologies quickly. If all of mankind was thinking like that we would still be inventing a wheelbarrow. Not a good prospect. Right?

regards
Barney

[LarryMc]

but if you call yourself a programmer you should be able to understand all the advantages of x64 computing.

Well, we've finally got that settled once and for all.  I am definitely NOT a programmer.
I don't see how x64 will ever benefit me one iota.
Do I get any points for never having called myself a programmer?
My wifes computer is a win 7 64bit (and her laptop) and mine is XP.
I can't see any noticeable difference between the machines (other than her laptop is slower than my xp but that's processor speed).

But I acknowledge that people want it and have stated, in the past, to LarryS that IMO it should be looked into.

BTW, I've got a 2-bit wheelbarrow.

LarryMc

[Ficko]

But I don't see the connection with the 64-bit version of IWB...

Me either I was just answering a specific statement of yours.

it is your way of thinking that actually stops us (or at least it slows us down) getting into the new technologies quickly

This way of thinking brings sanity of application and into deployment.
I am not seeking to get a 64-bit brained robot to help me out in my bathroom. - I like to do certain things myself -

But to the record I do support the idea of getting IWB up to 64-bit.
Not because it will be beneficial just because it is fun.

No 64-bit processor will beat a 32-bit one with the same caliber.
You get advantage if your application require a lots of memory - over 2GB - like deploying multicore servers.
- In fact 64-bit applications are larger than 32-bit ones. -
Not likely that anyone will write such application in BASIC nevertheless it can be fun to play with such compiler.

[Doc]

Well, since opinion, speculation and broad generalizations seem to be okay in this topic, I'll toss my 2Ã,¢ worth in the ring.

Point one:
It's pretty easy to have lofty expectations for what "someone else ought to do" in order to improve a product, without any regard to the real need, who might be footing the bill and/or who is doing the work.

We think we need it, so we want it!
We want it soon!
We want it free or at least bare bones cheap!
What's the hold up?

Point two:
Regardless of what developers do or do not do, the average and typical computer user will on a regular basis, run a web browser, an email client,  an "office" type program and perhaps some media software of one variation or another. For all but a tiny fraction of the populace, exactly what is all that 64 bit horsepower supposed to do to improve those simple tasks?

It's my guess that the only true beneficiaries of 64bit computing is AMD, Intel, Microsoft, Apple and a big handful of hardware manufacturers that want to make everyone believe that we need to spend 'mo money for new hardware and software.  You know you can't do without it, right?

Sounds like they already have some of us convinced.

-Doc-

[CodeTRUCKER]

The only reason I have any interest in 64-bit is one has no other option if you need a new computer and you *will* need a new computer.  It is just a matter of time.  I discovered this last December. 

I tried to find a *new* XP Box and none were to be had, unless I wanted to build my own (which I didn't want to tackle) or buy used (which I didn't want to do)., but your mileage may vary.

Calvin

[mrainey]

On Black Friday I bought a new Lenovo IdeaPad, Win 7x64.  I played with it for a few weeks before deciding that I missed my XP.  Lenovo furnished all the drivers, eBay had the OS, and I'm a happy camper again.  I saved Win7 on another partition so I can test my IWBasic programs in that environment.

Yeah, I'm a dinosaur, but so what?  I'm old, I'm entitled. 

[Doc]

Yeah, I'm a dinosaur, but so what?  I'm old, I'm entitled.   

Hey, I resemble that remark.


HiYa Mike! 
...hope you are doing well. (one old dinosaur to another )

-Doc-

[CodeTRUCKER]

Can I play?!?  I'm a coboluhdeebeetwouhceeyecessasaurus!

[LarryMc]

I'm a coboluhdeebeetwouhceeyecessasaurus!

oooooohhhhhh I love it when you talk dirty!!!

LarryMc

[CodeTRUCKER]

Thanks, LarryM,

Just out of curiosity, what other species of prehistoric fauna do we have?

Yoohoo! LarryM, Doc, MikeR, Adrian, et.al.  ??

Calvin

[Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)]

Me - geekasourrusoldus

Larry

[Barney]

Actually... now I know where I got it wrong guys. Most of you really need an 8-bit or even a 4-bit OS and software. Than you'll probably be happy. 

I am also a dinosaur who is working with computers for the last 40 years but a dinosaur who was (and is) always looking into the future. That's why I am looking forward to a 64-bit version of IWB and I'll definitely purchase a copy, just as I purchased practically everything Ionic Wind was offering throughout the years. And not only once...

However, money to pay the bills must be earned elsewhere and for that I have turned to C# a long time ago. Easy, adaptable, cross-platform and fast. Pretty much everything one needs for all types of software creation. From games to "serious" software. Oh, yes. It also creates 64-bit programs. Quite useful when one creates complex mathematically oriented software using many cores and/or processors available on modern computers.

Barney

[Logman]

For me, the advantages of 64-bit have to do with the modeling and simulations I develop. Having the ability to move larger figures through the CPU's special math registers cuts the time it takes to do actual calculations in real time (time is cut exponentially).

I agree that not everybody needs this capability; even I still program for the DOS environment on my IBM PCs with 8088/80286 microchips. I have a wide range of customers and like Ficko pointed out, not all of them require 64-bit solutions. However, the ones who do require 64-bit software, pay one heck of a lot more money than the ones who don't!

Also, I incorporate a considerable amount of assembly code within my IWBasic programs using the latest version of NASM, which by the way can and should be regularly upgraded in the IWBasic package. For me, 64-bit assembly programming is a lot easier than 32-bit--sort of like not having to address the DS and ES registers to get around the 286/386 64k segment limits under DOS in the 16-bit environment.

Anyway, C, C++, C#, PureBasic, and other competing languages offer 64-bit. I'll bet that even PowerBasic will offer a 64-bit in the near future as well as 32-bit so they can make more money. I'd like to see IWBasic enter the 64-bit realm so I can stay with the language and not have to switch over to another one to get 64-bit capability for my clients.

Logman  

[Doc]

Actually... now I know where I got it wrong guys. Most of you really need an 8-bit or even a 4-bit OS and software. Than you'll probably be happy.   

Heh, quite possibly so.... and likely more productive for many of us! At least at that level, I personally wouldn't be distracted by things like email, surfing the net and making unwanted replies like this one at programming forums.

Cheers!

-Doc-