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Why is Aurora abandoned?

Started by Shannara, January 18, 2011, 12:57:29 PM

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Shannara

Its been 1.5 years since the last news/update concerning Aurora. It held such promise (only missing a few bindings, and the Code Editor is still not up to snuff, lack of documentation, etc). This would of neatly replaced purebasic as the next stepping stone from a procedure langauge to oop, if it was continued to be worked on. (such as a dx9/2d library, etc).

So my question is ... why was Aurora abandoned?
Love is staying up all night with a sick child, or a healthy adult.

Hendo

Quote from: Shannara on January 18, 2011, 12:57:29 PM
Its been 1.5 years since the last news/update concerning Aurora. It held such promise (only missing a few bindings, and the Code Editor is still not up to snuff, lack of documentation, etc). This would of neatly replaced purebasic as the next stepping stone from a procedure langauge to oop, if it was continued to be worked on. (such as a dx9/2d library, etc).

So my question is ... why was Aurora abandoned?

I too would like to know this as well as if there are any future plans for Aurora (along with any viable time-frames). I like the C++ style of Aurora, but I'm having a hard time convincing myself it is a language I should learn/use when the development seems to be at worst dead and at best "in limbo." I emailed Larry about his intentions for the language but have received no response. I'd like to hear what anyone "in the know" can share.

LarryMc

pretty easy to explain.
About a year ago the original owner/author decided (for personal reasons) to shutdown the forums and abandon all 3 languages (CBasic, EBasic, and Aurora). He changed his mine shortly thereafter and decided to sell the languages to 3 different people.  LarryS bought EBasic(now IWBasic), Graham Sutton bought CBasic, and a unnamed person bought Aurora.

Graham later gave CBasic back to the original owner who, after a short period of time, sold it to LarryS. Not long after that the person who purchased Aurora decided they didn't want it and LarryS purchased it.

So, LarryS now owns all three and the original owner/author is no longer associated with them in any way, shape, or form.

The current effort for LarryS is the pending release of IWBasic which is waiting on the documentation to be finished (which I am working on).

The major obstacle to Aurora haviing an official release is the documentation.  I can't speak for LarryS but I don't see that happening in the near future.

Unlike the previous owner who was trying to make aliving off the languages LarryS has a very good full time job which is his priority.

Hope this answers your questions.

LarryMc
LarryMc
Larry McCaughn :)
Author of IWB+, Custom Button Designer library, Custom Chart Designer library, Snippet Manager, IWGrid control library, LM_Image control library

Hendo

Well, while your response does provide a snapshot of the current situation (thanks for that), it doesn't provide any indication of the long term status of Aurora as a supported product (bug fixes, udpates/enhancements). Hopefully the owner will be able to shed light on these other concerns. There really is no point in investing money and time by purchasing and learning a language that potentially has "no future."

Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)

I have plans for Aurora - I need to finish up the IWBasic 2.0 release before I do anything else.
I have made a list of things to accomplish based on interest here on the forum.
Aurora is at the bottom of that list right now since very few have expressed an interest in it.

Larry

Hendo

I think the lack of interest in Aurora at this point could probably be due to the handling of Aurora prior to your ownership. I think a lot of people lost interest after they had invested money and their time in a product they saw a lot of potential for, only to have it put in limbo.

I think the high interest in IWBasic/EBasic stems from the fact that there was a large base of ibasic users (built over many years) who basically saw their language resurrected and are now able to continue using the language they were before.

With the right development I think Aurora could succeed. Heck, even Shannara offered to code an IDE (separate post). But I guess I'm on the outside, so what do I really know. Perhaps a name change would make Aurora more appealing and attract new users.. something witty.. like A++ (c++), Object A (object pascal), Objective A (objective c), Code A, etc. You get the idea.

Steven Picard

Aurora had a lot of promise and is what I was an original Partner Dev in (same as Shannara but who was wise enough to sell his shares before it was too late.)  However, it was the original author that gave up on it in favor of EBasic (now IWBasic).  He gave up on it because it really didn't bring enough interest and he knew enough people still wanted a future for IBasic so he capatlized on that. The truth is, it's been stalled ever since EBasic was created. 

If Shannara began a project based on developing a new IDE for Aurora I think that would probably spark more interest. A name change, as has been suggested by Hendo is also a very good idea.

I've learned a lesson through all this, however: never pre-purchase incomplete software and don't invest in a stranger's work without a real contract.

Shannara

If I said IDE, I misspoke, I meant Code Editor as IDEs have an integrated visual designer, and I can not do that :(
Love is staying up all night with a sick child, or a healthy adult.

Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)

It is now the policy to never sell pre-purchase software. I did release an interim version of IWBasic but it was fully functional and
a platform to move from Ebasic.

So - Aurora is not dead but will not be back until I have something worth releasing.
It will have a new name. I was thinking of calling the new language Bang(!).

I have not had many request for enhancements for the new language. except to make it 64 bit.
I was always a proponent of the Linux cross compiler - like you I bought all the unfinished stuff.

I bought the rights to Aurora from the person that had purchased it from the original owner.
If you would like to work on the new version - we can work out a deal.

I did the same for IWBasic.

Anyway - like I said - it is down near the bottom of the list of things to do - has not been much demand for it.


Larry

Steven Picard

I was working on an IDE for EBasic at one time with the intention of making it for Aurora as well.  I got pretty far but it still required a lot more work (Larry M. can attest to the amount of work an IDE requires  ;).)  Anyways, here's screen shots:




LarryMc

It has crossed my mind more than once (and LarryS has even mentioned it to me) about making my Visual Designer work with Aurora.  I'd have to spend some time figuring out how to structure the code generation part.

Let's see, when I get through with the Designer for IWB 2.0 I'll look into it.

But wait, I'm not working on the Designer right now; I'm working on the docs for IWB 2.0

So, when I get through with IWB 2.0 help;
and then finish the Designer for version 2.0;
and then rewrite the help for the new designer;
I'll look into it. ;)

Uhmmmm, this is 2011....... ;D
LarryMc
Larry McCaughn :)
Author of IWB+, Custom Button Designer library, Custom Chart Designer library, Snippet Manager, IWGrid control library, LM_Image control library

LarryMc

BTW, my suggestion for a new naqme would be IW++ to go with IWBasic.

LarryMc
LarryMc
Larry McCaughn :)
Author of IWB+, Custom Button Designer library, Custom Chart Designer library, Snippet Manager, IWGrid control library, LM_Image control library

tbohon

Steven et. al. ...

I've always been fascinated with building a visual designer and would be more than happy to pay $$$ for a 'course' on how to do it especially if it culminated with construction of a minimal designer such as shown in your screen shot.  Ideally it would be something that could be used for multiple languages by simply plugging in different code emission modules, e.g. one for Aurora, one for Python, one for languagexyz ...  While I can make computers do just about anything trying to build a designer 'from scratch' on a 'try-fail-retry-refail-reretry...' basis is more frustrating than useful.

So if anything like that ever happens (or if someone knows of anything like that already out and available anywhere) please let me know.

Tom
"If you lead your life the right way, the karma will take care of itself ... the dreams will come to you."  -- Randy Pausch, PhD (1961-2008)

Steven Picard

Tom, I can tell you it's a fair amount of work.  However, if I started over I would have a different look and feel.  The version I worked on I was trying to mimic VB6's look and feel. Anyways, a good open source example would be SharpDevelop. The only drawback may be that it is written in C#. Personally, I like C# but you may not.

You can find out about it here: http://www.sharpdevelop.net/opensource/sd/
You can learn how to create custom language bindings here: http://sdesmedt.wordpress.com/2007/02/16/add-your-own-programming-language-to-sharpdevelop-part-1-make-your-templates-available/
You can find the book here: http://www.amazon.com/Dissecting-C-Application-Inside-SharpDevelop/dp/1861008171/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299271332&sr=8-1.

WayneA

I posted an incomplete visual designer a little while back that might help you start writing one, Tom.

http://www.ionicwind.com/forums/index.php?topic=4146.msg32412#msg32412
99 little bugs in the code,
99 bugs in the code,
Fix one bug,
Compile again,
104 little bugs in the code...

All code I post is in the public domain.

tbohon

Steven:  I have no doubt it's a lot of work but it keeps my aged brain engaged which supposedly will keep my lucid for a long time ...  ;)  As for C# I love the language but am not crazy about having to include the .Net framework - especially since there are now what, 4 versions?  However yes the language is great and I'll be sure to check out SharpDevelop which I've used at work for some time.  Also GREATLY appreciate the other links ... will definitely be perusing them this weekend.

Wayne:  Thanks for the pointer - I'll head over there now to see your work.

Thanks guys!!!

Tom
"If you lead your life the right way, the karma will take care of itself ... the dreams will come to you."  -- Randy Pausch, PhD (1961-2008)