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Ionic Wind Linux Project

Started by Ionic Wind Support Team, January 23, 2007, 09:45:55 PM

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Brice Manuel

February 12, 2007, 07:26:13 PM #125 Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 09:15:56 PM by Brice Manuel
One more question, on Linux, for windowed games, do you expect the Flip command will still be able to return the FPS?

Thanks for answering the other questions, Paul.  No major hurdles, it seems.  As to the API issues I already rewrote to take two custom DLLs out. 

Ionic Wind Support Team

Again I haven't really gotten into converting the 2D commands.  But I don't see a problem returning the FPS as it is just a simple thing.  Add up the number of frames per second.
Ionic Wind Support Team

Blue Steel

February 13, 2007, 07:40:14 AM #127 Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 11:22:41 PM by Blue Steel
All 3 demos work using Mandriva Linux 2007 ;)

Attached are snapshots of my first game of mastermind

;) yes i won and got onto the high score list ;)

  http://www.codingmonkeys.com
Covers many languages including Aurora , IWBasicEbasic (Ebasic, IBasic) , Creative Basic

Brice Manuel

Quote from: Paul Turley on February 12, 2007, 10:10:07 PM
Again I haven't really gotten into converting the 2D commands.  But I don't see a problem returning the FPS as it is just a simple thing.
Sorry, wasn't trying to be annoying ;D The way it works in EB is somewhate unique when compared to other languages and it is the cornerstone for my timing and animation methods. ;)

SMartin

Paul,

I was happy to hear that you're taking EB and Aurora over to Linux.
All this talk about Ubuntu made me want to try it out. The install went fine except for the wireless (always a problem) and graphic acceleration on my laptop's NVidia card.
After some searching I found a tutorial and drivers for my wireless and a nice little program called envy that got my acceleration working.

The only thing that has kept me from sticking with linux through the years was the lack of a programming package that someone of my level (no so high) could get in to. I'm certainly no authority, but it appears that your products are a good fit for a wide range of skill levels, from beginner to  very experienced.

I hope you do well and get yourself a nice big mansion right there between Bill Gates and Linus......

Anyway, now to my question.....

I actually installed Kubuntu and later added the Ubunto desktop because I though I might need it for Emergence and Aurora.
Am I mistaken about that? Do I need gnome?

Ionic Wind Support Team

You just need GTK 2.0 which is a set of libraries that Gnome is built on top of.  On every linux distro I have seen they are part of the default installation.  So you don't need Gnome itself, just as I don't need KDE to run apps made for KDE, just the libraries.

As a desktop manager I perfer Gnome because of its elegant simplicity and reliability.  Ubuntu is traditionally a Gnome environment. Kubuntu is the port of KDE to Ubuntu.  When I first started getting serious with Linux I used KDE for some time.  Although it is a nice looking interface I found it inconsistant in application interaction.  And it was a bit buggy, at least the last version I tried.  Mostly "kicker" crashes.

For application development the indie developer needs to stick with GTK/Gnome since there isn't any cost involved.  Developing commercial applications for KDE requires aquiring a commercial license from Trolltech. Trolltech holds the copyrights to QT, the graphics library/application toolkit that KDE is built upon.   Their licensing fees are outrageous in todays market.  See for yourself:

http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/licenses/pricing

I personally boycott Trolltech for throttling commercial development for Linux.  And in as much won't install KDE on any Linux machine I have.  Not because KDE is that bad, just because it relies on QT with their archaic licensing scheme.

Paul.
Ionic Wind Support Team

Parker

Quote from: Paul Turley on February 23, 2007, 08:44:00 PMTheir licensing fees are outrageous in todays market.  See for yourself:

http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/licenses/pricing

No thanks, I'd rather buy a car ::)...

Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)

Any update - are we getting close?
Are we there yet, Are we there yet, Are we there yet, I gotta go potty. :)

Brice Manuel

Yeah, how is progress?  I am really looking forward to the official release party that Larry is sponsoring and hosting at his Farm ;D

Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)

I am always having a party :)
All you need to do is show up.

LarryMc

Quote from: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on March 09, 2007, 09:02:23 AM
Any update - are we getting close?
Are we there yet, Are we there yet, Are we there yet, I gotta go potty. :)
Don't make me pulll over!
Don't ever let me catch you kids having fun again!
I'll ground you for the rest of your natural life!
Oh yeah, forgot one.
I'll be glad when you have kids. Paybacks are hell! ;D
LarryMc
Larry McCaughn :)
Author of IWB+, Custom Button Designer library, Custom Chart Designer library, Snippet Manager, IWGrid control library, LM_Image control library

Brice Manuel

Quote from: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on March 09, 2007, 05:12:57 PM
I am always having a party :)
All you need to do is show up.
You might not want to say that, I might just take you up on it, lol.  This time of year, I REALLY miss living in Florida.

Rock Ridge Farm (Larry)

If you are passing thru - let me know - I have had several people drop by.
Even had some people from England stop by to see the old tractors.

Brice Manuel

Paul:  How are things progressing?


QuoteEven had some people from England stop by to see the old tractors.
You really know how to tempt an old country boy.

Ionic Wind Support Team

Slowly.  Still only about 10 people interested in the Linux versions.  Spending my time on the courses at the moment.

Ionic Wind Support Team

GPA

Are you judging "interest" based on money being donated to the project? I don't think that's a fair estimator. I don't have the funds to contribute financially, but I'm still interested. I'm also interesed in IWBasic.. now I'm not when or if either of these will see the light of day. If development for projects is strictly based on donations, I think it should be stated clearly and up front, so people who do contribute understand that their money will be sitting and waiting for more people to contribute.

Ionic Wind Support Team

#1. read the first post of this thread.  I clearly state that the project is donation supported since I am offering them for free and based on interest in the project.  When I release a test executable and only 4 to 5 people actually bother to download it and report back that kind of tells me the interest. 

#2. I am only one person and that only one writing code for all of the projects.  So give me a break.  I've got a family to support and if I spend all of my time on free projects then all of them will fail.
Ionic Wind Support Team

Brice Manuel

March 27, 2007, 07:26:48 PM #142 Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 07:28:50 PM by Paul Turley
Quote from: Paul Turley on March 27, 2007, 01:24:01 PMSlowly.
Thanks for answering honestly.  I guess I will have to stick with another basic for my Linux needs, at least for now.

Ionic Wind Support Team

I guess you will. Unless someone wants to jump in and help write the IDE, anyone?  Thought not.

If I sound a little off, well I am.  I announced the linux project and spent hundreds of hours coding the conversions of the compiler proper in the hopes all of those hundreds of people that used to bug me about IBasic and linux would come out of the woodwork.  What do I get for my work?  Nothing.  A few dedicated users testing the executables I would upload, but not much more.

Then I get the people that say they can't contribute financially, and that's fine, but even $1.00 is a contribution.  Starting a discussion is a contribution, offering to help is a contribution. 

Basically because it is a free offering it is going to be slow, sidetracked along the way, and at times seem to be ignored completely.  When times are good and I am not in such dire straights with money then I will have time to blow and work on Linux projects.  The only other choice is to actually charge a registration fee for it.

Paul.
Ionic Wind Support Team

Brice Manuel

QuoteI guess you will.
I am sorry, I didn't mean to offend you by that.  Although I am a Linux newbie, I am VERY interested in it.

QuoteThe only other choice is to actually charge a registration fee for it.
IMHO, this would be a VERY good idea!  I am sure you would have many takers.

John Williams

Hi Paul,

I got here thru asking Mike Rainey to support Linux for his metalworking app. I want to run it in the shop and think Linux is a better choice rather than buying another XP license. I tried running it in Wine but failed with a seh:setup_exception... Native support is a better way to go anyway.

IMHO, the problem here is that there are ample other ways to code on the Linux platform, and many of those are free. Seems the value here is to have cross platform support for those that code on Windows but want to provide the application on Linux, as well. At this point, I see little value to have the complete set of tools supported on both code bases. Especially given the fact that the windowing environment is quite different.

If I may suggest that you take the approach of only running the development IDE on Windows for now, and give your customers the ability to move the code to Linux to generate the binaries from a command line. That will give them some capability to meet their needs and not have you to support both code bases in there entirety. If demand increases, you can then decide if further work is necessary. I would also charge for this feature. Not much, say around $10-20 in addition to the base license...optional fee.

Another option is to integrate the tools (compiler, debugger, etc) into a Linux IDE, like Eclipse. That makes more sense to me rather than porting a bunch of IDE code...but I clearly do not understand all of your product so don't know if that is a viable option.

Just my view/opinion. I work in the commercial Linux biz and think there will be some folks that will prefer to migrate to Linux rather than Vista. Considering it myself. Ubuntu is a very credible desktop implementation.

John

Shannara

That .. i .. holy ... never thought of that. Cross platform compiling? Code in one platform (in this case Windows), and compile the code for use on another platform. In this case, Linux. I *think* there is a compiler, gcc? That allows this. Also, charging for the Linux version really does sound good (for me at least), and I will be one of the first to purchase the sucker. So far I have purchased every compiler (user end) that Paul have released from IBasic Pro to Aurora, to EBasic. And I have no problem showing my support by purchasing cross-os versions of the products.

Love is staying up all night with a sick child, or a healthy adult.

Doc

QuoteI guess you will. Unless someone wants to jump in and help write the IDE, anyone?  Thought not.

Using the same tools, language and compiler that you are using and to the specifications you are looking for in a final product?
...probably not.

On the other hand Paul, there are probably more than a few of us around here that might be able to put together a *use-able* IDE (w/o a form design tool most likely) as a short term solution.
A. Access to a semi-functional compiler (in whatever stage of completion)
B. A simple list of working commands and functions
C. A general description of how to interface the existing compiler from an external application

I can only speak for myself here, but as a general rule of thumb, I personally don't code for Windows at all anymore unless:
A. It's relatively simple
B. It's relatively important
C. It's most definitely work related. (My only real motivating factor)

...I haven't had the desire to code for Windows for a long time now, which is why I seldom post any code or questions around here.

I think we all understand that generating income must be your top priority at the present. Sounds like a sound game plan to me. :)

You might however, be surprised just how much additional interest could be stirred up for the Linux project (w/o a major drain on your time) if the opportunity presented itself under the terms above. ;)

-Doc-

P.S. Good luck with the job interview!  :)

Ionic Wind Support Team

Sorry about the previous postings.  Was in a very bad mood that evening.

Yes I could provide the current compiler for use with an external IDE with a few instructions on use. The compiler itself works great, you can see the GUI command set is progressing by the examples.  I will have to think on it.

Paul.
Ionic Wind Support Team

Doc

Just a little food for thought, my friend. ;)

-Doc-