Mnaged Code

[Zen]

Ok, i guess i am talking about this a little before its time, somewhere between 3 and 6 years infact, but i feel it is something that needs to be talked about where us smaller programming communities are concerned using small programming languages like Aurora.

The reason i have brought this up was when i was reading some of the stuff microsoft have said about Windows Viena and how the operating system will handle non managed code. Microsoft are saying that they will execute all non managed code in a "sandbox" type environment that is qquite extensivley cut-off from the "outside world" so to speak. which will quite simply limit what we can do with our non managed code programming language.

so even though Vienna isnt due untill somewhere between 2009 and 2012, it is something to think about where we will take this language. Also they are starting to bring in some of the features of Vienna's new operating system abilities with Windows code name Fiji, which will either be a successor to Vista or a release made between Vista and Vienna.

Lewis

[Ionic Wind Support Team]

I'll still be using XP and Linux when Vista is a few years old, if it ever gets released.  Your looking a bit too far ahead as I don't see Microsoft still being a viable company in 2012.  Seriously.

[Zen]

if it ever gets released

He he, good point, its taking its time.

Yeah i thought i was looking a bit too far ahead, i mean i have only being programming for about 4 years now and a lot of people have been for longer than i have been round, i just thought this was one of those big changes that was going to happen.

Hmm interesting you dont think they will be viable or much longer. Any particular reason? Or do you just think that more and more people are standing up to there monopolisation (dont think thats a word) ? Also i believe bill gates has prety much left the corporation now, or so i have heard.

Lewis

[Ionic Wind Support Team]

The company went through a huge growth stage in the 90's.  In the new millennium it has struggled to reinvent itself to keep up with the changing culture, hardware, economics, what have you.  Employee turnover is very high and there is much too much infrastructure and red tape within the company.

As a corporation Microsoft has failed to downsize its workforce and simplify production. To the point that nothing is getting done, or consistantly delayed over and over again.  I read that one programmer had 17 'bosses' that he had to go through in order to get a code change approved.  Bad for productivity, bad for growth.

If you follow the markets you'll see the declining trend in the last three years of Microsoft's stock price.  From a high of $60/share in 2000 to it's current level of $23/share.  One wrong move will be all it takes to further the downward trend.

Microsoft has also failed to anticipate the needs of its corporate customers.  It is no longer sufficient to keep churning out buggy word/excel/access revisions year after year at a hefty pricetag.  What's needed is innovation that helps corporations reduce cost and overhead while allowing their employess the flexability of a consistant collaberation of tasks. Something I have yet to see.

As a prediction I don't think there will be a desktop OS market in 2012.  At least not like we are used to. 

[kryton9]

That's interesting Paul, but I don't think anyone wants to run off of an internet based OS if that is what you mean. Just for privacy sakes I think a desktop (let's say device, pc, pda, cell phone) type OS is a must. Linux is not the answer. At the moment if anyone is close enough to move Microsoft off the hill top it would be Apple with their OS and shell.

I am always surprised with the money out there and brain power why we don't have a great really useable OS competing with Microsoft. Microsoft for years has really dropped the ball of not using its monopoly to really do something wonderful with its power. They could have dictated standards of chip makers and hardware makers for instance to supply info in a standard way so that the user never had to configure or download drivers. That driver updates would be done without having to reboot and on and on. Hardware should just tell any OS what type of device it is, if it is something totally new, it should be able to talk to the OS and tell it what it could do for instance like classes have methods etc.

Anyways, I think a device dependent (dektop OS) is a must, at least in this country.

[Zen]

Kryton, i agree. A ompany with that kind of power and money, not to mention the wide range of hardware manufacturers they will hve on there list, they have yet to bring out something new that has something other than graphics or a novelty feature that gives the WOW factor. Like you said, get some of the old fasioned hardware rubish solved, it is definatley more than possible, so why dont they do it. I personally think as soon as a company or person who creates an operating system like this is going to give microsoft a nasty surprise. I mean i have some wonderfull ideas for an operating system, i even write them down and draw the whole thing out, but unfortunatley thats where my dream finishes, as i dont have the programming skills needed (yet), who knows, im only 20, maybe in a few years and a little more experience i could fund a project like it, there is no harm in trying right?

Why are you against the whole internet bsed stuff? With modern internet speeds i can see everything moving more and more along the narrow path to internet based computing. Just think, say 10 years time, internet speeds i could imagine would be almost instnt, offering an almost real-time updatable fully interactive internet based operating system. The power something like this could achieve is un-imaginable.

I guess we will just have to wait and see where things go.

Lewis

[Ionic Wind Support Team]

I wasn't talking about internet based OS's.  That's just a fad.  Netpliances are just about as useless as a stump IMHO.

I was refering more to portable computing, we've all seen the trend in laptop sizes, prices and capabilities.  The days of the 60 lb computer with it's companion 40 lb monitor are slowly coming to an end. 

[Zen]

Hmmm i dont know about it being a fad, why not take advantage of fast internet speeds though? Seems a good idea to me. Hence why i started the whole Aurora Live project too.

Yes laptops are getting smaller and lighter every month, i was in PC world at the weekend looking at laptops, they even have them with high definition now, along with dual core processors and massives amounts of hard disk space. Technology is scary sometimes, makes you wonder if computers will be controling us in a few years lol.

Lewis

[kryton9]

Privacy is the main concern for internet based OS. What happens if you lose your connection to the web? So a device dependent OS is a must for those 2 reasons if you ask me.

I will be the first to dump the desktops when great portables come out. I ran all last year on a notebook, loved every bit of it. Can't wait for something like those MS origami type computers that would be like desktops. Where you could buy components and build it yourself. Even if they had decent pricing on notebooks with parts you could put and upgrade, that would be awesome.

Did you guys ever watch Earth Final Conflict? I loved their little handheld with the roll out screen. Now if they could get one to be like that but about 24" wide, sweet

[Zen]

No i've never seen it. I must admit i love my laptop too, take it anywhere and do whatever. Its about  years old now, its a toshiba and ive never had a problem with it once, runs fine for what i want, i can even do some half decent stuff in 3d max too without it killing everything else.

Lewis

[Ionic Wind Support Team]

Server (web) applications are different than a netpliance.  WebTV is a netpliance. 

Yes there is a place for web bases applications. But personally I would never use them for anything sensitive.  For example TurboTax lets you do your taxes completely with a net driven application. Very scary and not something I would ever do. I prefer to keep all sensitive and personal data locally.  As far away from the public network as possible.

After I had a run in with identity theft I stopped using branded debit cards completely.  You know those cards with the visa/mc logo that link directly to your checking account.  Allowing anyone that steals your data to empty that account quite easily.  Went back to using checks/cash entirely. 

Americans are much too cavalier with their personal information.  And very security naive.  It amazes me how friends will enter their credit card numbers everywhere on the net without a second thought.

But I digress a bit. 

why not take advantage of fast internet speeds though?

Sure I have that luxury now.  But only recently.  I was on dial-up until 2004 since broadband and cable was not available to any of my previous homes. 

makes you wonder if computers will be controling us in a few years lol.

ding  That was your wake up bell .  Computers have been controlling out lives since the 70's.  Call a larger utility (phone, electric, etc) here in the US and try and talk to a real person.  It's all automated with some of the best speech recognition available.  Making a phone payment is as simple as telling the computer your transit and routing numbers.  Now that is scary 

[Ionic Wind Support Team]

Did you guys ever watch Earth Final Conflict? I loved their little handheld with the roll out screen. Now if they could get one to be like that but about 24" wide, sweet

One of the best scifi shows ever produced.  Got a little weird at the end of the series though. 

[Zen]

Yes i suppose your right, in more ways than we often realise we are already depeendent on machines we have made ourselves, trouble is now, we cant go without them. What about the stock exchange, big banks. You can do a lot online now, thanks to networking. But i mean, we are trying to make intelligent computers with learning processors etc. What is to stop a machine once it has the ability to learn to become self aware of everything and begin to lern more and more at its own discresion? Although the human brain is far more powerfull than any computer system, thinking computers could learn almost instantly. Yes ok, maybe im getting a bit sci-fi here, but its all possible.

Lewis

[kryton9]

About EFC, yep wierd last season, but like you said a great series.

I think technology can offer us the closest thing to utopia. It could solve hunger, the need to work for money and on and on. And yes one day eventually those technologies might come to a level of being asensient, like with Data on Star Trek, I think when that time comes if we were smart we would treat them as equals and give them the same rights and respect, all the better for everyone.

But then again... I am sure they will watch Dr. WHo and Star Trek and The Terminator movies and go... hmmm can we trust these humans. Maybe our counterparts have the right idea

[Barney]

Regarding the web or server based apps... Isn't that just completing the circle. The whole PC (as in Perconal Computer) craze started because people wanted to get rid of the dependancy on big mainframes and even on the dependancy on time sharing systems. Users wanted the ability to run their programs anytime, anyplace and that was (and still is) possible only with the desktop OS running on your own PC machine. So, I'd say we'll happily live with desktop OS's for quite a long time. If it's going to be one of MS's offerings remains to be seen...

Barney