IonicWind Software

IWBasic for Linux => General IWLP Discussion => Topic started by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 23, 2007, 09:45:55 PM

Title: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 23, 2007, 09:45:55 PM
Hello All,
Over the last few weeks I have been busily porting our compilers to Linux.  The long term goal of Ionic Wind Software was to make our compilers available on multiple platforms.  Versions of Emergence and Aurora for Linux is the first step in that goal.

After much thought on the subject, and conversations with other programmers, I have decided that for the time being the Linux versions will be free to registered owners of the Windows versions of our software.  What this means is when you purchase and register the Windows version you will be given the download link to the Linux version at no extra cost when they are ready.  

In order to offer the compilers at no cost we are making them contribution supported.  By doing so this allows us to keep the free spirit of Linux while still being able to further the development of the products.  Any cash contribution of $50 or more will give you a spot on the forthcoming "Contributers" page of our website.  Contribution also entitles you to the Linux versions if you don't already own the Windows versions of the software.

Now I will try and answer some questions before they are asked:

How soon before they are available?
Answer: That depends on how much interest there is.  The Emergence and Aurora parsers have already been ported, the IDE's will take a big chunk of my development time.  

Do you have any Linux executables we can try?
Answer: Yes.  Attached to this message, download the file, rename to remove the .zip extension, chmod to 755 to mark it as an executable and run in your favorite terminal program.  If you don't know how to do that then ask.  Compiled in Ubuntu 6.06 and requires at least libc6, which is standard now anyway.  

I had to add the extension .zip to allow it to be attached to the post.

What linux distibutions are you supporting?
Officially any debian based distribution.  My favorite is Ubuntu.


Ok, fire away with more questions ;)

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 23, 2007, 10:08:02 PM
Well now... that's plenty exciting for some of us!  ;)
One of the first few questions I asked going back some 5-6 years ago with Paul's first language product was whether there was a Linux version planned... This is GREAT news!

Questions:
What is the GUI framework that will be used? (GTK2??)
How long do you estimate that the Linux versions will have GUI capabilities if not already?
Will the syntax be compatible between the Linux and Windows versions?

That's about it for now.  ;D

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 23, 2007, 10:11:55 PM
Quote
How can I contribute?
Through this PayPal link

Done!  ;D

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 23, 2007, 10:21:25 PM
Quote from: David Coker on January 23, 2007, 10:08:02 PM
Questions:
What is the GUI framework that will be used? (GTK2??)
How long do you estimate that the Linux versions will have GUI capabilities if not already?
Will the syntax be compatible between the Linux and Windows versions?

That's about it for now.  ;D

-Doc-

Yes it will be GTK(2).  But you can use any framework directly as well.  I have experimented with using glade to create the interfaces, a little odd but works.  The commands you use as a user are the same, OpenWindow, CloseWindow, etc.

I should have most of the GUI commands ported within a few weeks.  The syntax is compatible, some of the commands will be slightly different depending on some of the vast differences between Windows and Linux.  For example Linux doesn't have an MDI interface like you're used to in Windows.  The closest anology is a tabbed interface and a lot of programs opt for that.

Thanks for being the 1st contributer ;)

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 23, 2007, 10:23:54 PM
You're welcome!

QuoteBut you can use any framework directly as well.

...and you've already answered my 4th question. :)

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on January 24, 2007, 12:07:43 AM
WOOHOO!!  ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: splakidas on January 24, 2007, 01:23:51 AM
 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X wow
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on January 24, 2007, 01:33:41 AM
What will the 2D on Linux use?
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 24, 2007, 02:25:11 AM
There is only one choice (OpenGL).  DirectX is only for Windows.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on January 24, 2007, 02:36:10 AM
QuoteThere is only one choice (OpenGL).
SDL ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 24, 2007, 02:44:38 AM
I believe SDL uses GL for display on Linux systems. 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Barney on January 24, 2007, 05:05:45 AM
I would much more prefer a Macintosh version of either Aurora or EBasic. Linux is basically useless as a viable platform for selling indie produced software. Frankly, I don't see economical incentive in pushing those languages into the Linux realm. Macintosh would be far better option, not only for us but for Paul as well.

Barney
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: mrainey on January 24, 2007, 05:42:13 AM
I don't have much interest in using Linux, but would like to port some existing EBasic programs over.  Would I be able to compile and test EBasic Linux programs using one of those self-contained CD's that don't actually install Linux onto the hard drive?

Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on January 24, 2007, 06:03:43 AM
Do you have an Aurora port yet?
I really could use that.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 24, 2007, 06:26:02 AM
QuoteLinux is basically useless as a viable platform for selling indie produced software.

With all due respect, is that something that you've personally experienced or is your statement based on speculation? Please post a link to the Linux product that you've built that hasn't yet sold and I'll have a look at it. If it's something I can use, I could very easily be your customer forever.  ;)

I can agree wholeheartedly that the Mac platform would be a viable target market. Unfortunately, Paul doesn't have access to a Mac and my plans to loan/donate mine for development purposes went south due to some recent family issues. (I had to sell it to help out a family member.)

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 24, 2007, 09:32:08 AM
Quote from: mrainey on January 24, 2007, 05:42:13 AM
I don't have much interest in using Linux, but would like to port some existing EBasic programs over.  Would I be able to compile and test EBasic Linux programs using one of those self-contained CD's that don't actually install Linux onto the hard drive?

Probably.  Most of them set up a RAM drive to act as your user space.  So it would depends on how much memory you have.

Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 24, 2007, 09:38:57 AM
Quote from: Barney on January 24, 2007, 05:05:45 AM
I would much more prefer a Macintosh version of either Aurora or EBasic. Linux is basically useless as a viable platform for selling indie produced software. Frankly, I don't see economical incentive in pushing those languages into the Linux realm. Macintosh would be far better option, not only for us but for Paul as well.

Barney

I disagree and I don't own a Mac, can't afford a Mac, nor do I see one in my future unless you would like to contribute one for development.   There isn't much economic incentive for pushing indie languages on Windows either.  Most of us indie language developers just manage a meager income from it.  We do it because programming is our art ;)

The real money is still in real estate, just ask Donald Trump.  I drive a 1994 Ford Taurus that's current missing a muffler, he's probably never even been a passanger in a Ford ::)

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 24, 2007, 10:09:32 AM
Quote from: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on January 24, 2007, 06:03:43 AM
Do you have an Aurora port yet?
I really could use that.

reread the first post.  Both the Emergence and Aurora parsers have been ported.  IDE's not done yet. Currently they are working through the Anjuta IDE (see screen shot)

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on January 24, 2007, 10:38:12 AM
Quote from: Paul Turley on January 24, 2007, 02:44:38 AM
I believe SDL uses GL for display on Linux systems. 
Apologies, I thought it could use "software rendering" like it can on Windows.

I am really excited about this, lots of indie languages have tried to support Linux, but their Linux versions are not exactly stable, some to the point of being useless.  With Paul's history, we are going to have a VERY stable Linux programming language!!
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Steven Picard on January 24, 2007, 11:06:04 AM
I find this to be very exciting news.  I think that after the Linux versions are done we should do something about getting a Mac for Paul. ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Shannara on January 24, 2007, 11:58:47 AM
I dunno. In terms of average computer users (read, majority), OSX have a higher share then Linux. Linux is just .. well ...  for people who really loves getting into the internals of an OS ... Windows and OSX is basically the opposite as they are tailored for the average joe.

I do see Aurora and Ebasic having a place in linux for creating utilities and tools for those who run that OS. But to grab the widest user base for the average joe. One must consider the average joe OSes .. Windows/OSX.

I also agree ... Paul needs an OSX computer if he's even going to have a snowball in hell's chance of developing for that platform :)

Please remember, this is my personal opinion :) It does not mean what I say is fact :) It is how I feel, personally.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Parker on January 24, 2007, 12:31:54 PM
I personally think there is a place for a good Linux language, and I think that if it's easy to install you can get a lot of interest. I've tried installing Gambas and HBasic on Ubuntu and there are always missing packages. I think that's one of the main reasons that beginning programmers won't use Linux - you have C++ or you're on your own trying to get one of those BASICs to install. I did get FreeBASIC working, but there's no IDE and no built in GUI libraries.

It would be great if Aurora and EB supported OS X, but with Paul's current state I don't think that's a possibility right now. If we are supportive of the Linux version though, we may be able to raise enough money. Even if you don't use the Linux version, being able to say that your language is cross platform makes a big difference to a lot of people. And once we have a stable product for both Windows and Linux, we may be able to find a contributor to help get the languages onto OS X.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on January 24, 2007, 01:31:30 PM
QuoteI dunno. In terms of average computer users (read, majority), OSX have a higher share then Linux.
That hasn't been true for many years.  Several years ago most of the major tech journals in all surveys were showing Linux as the #2 OS in use by the average home user. 

Major retailers like Walmart have been selling preinstalled Linux machines for several years in stores and online and they have been a huge factor in making Linux machines readily available for the average home user.  Our local Walmart has some nice Linspire and Xandros machines.  Excellent choices for the average home user, and extremely user friendly and handles anything the average home user would want to do on a PC.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Dennisc on January 24, 2007, 02:10:36 PM
QuoteEven if you don't use the Linux version, being able to say that your language is cross platform makes a big difference to a lot of people. And once we have a stable product for both Windows and Linux, we may be able to find a contributor to help get the languages onto OS X.

I have to agree with Parker :)

Dennis
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 24, 2007, 06:15:12 PM
QuoteAny cash contribution of $50 or more will give you a spot on the forthcoming "Contributers" page of our website.  Contribution also entitles you to the Linux versions if you don't already own the Windows versions of the software.

Just to clairify:
In addition to the listing on the "contributors" page, a $50 contribution gives the person both Linux products when they are ready to roll?

Assuming the above is correct, do you anticipate allowing smaller contributions towards a single linux product of choice, for those that cannot afford the targeted amount? (...the old 20% of anything, always beats 100% of nothing scenario ;) )

Will there be an Alpha/Beta program where users will be able to participate? If so, when might those programs begin and what criteria will be used to select the participants?

I'll probably have a dozen more Q's sooner or later, but just in case you haven't noticed... I think this is fantastic!  ;D

Thank you!

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 24, 2007, 07:07:32 PM
Yes you will get both products for a contribution.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 24, 2007, 07:18:52 PM
No but lack of other things has delayed Aurora temporarily.  Working on the Linux versions is keeping me busy with time that I wouldn't have much else to do with otherwise.  And it is something that I really want to do.

Paul.

Quote from: Randall on January 24, 2007, 05:40:38 PM
Sounds good.  The cross-platform capability was one of the features that attracted me to Aurora.

Will this delay completion of the documentation for Aurora?

I would prefer to have documentation for Aurora before another Linux IDE. 

Randall
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Mike Stefanik on January 24, 2007, 10:49:03 PM
Quote from: Brice Manuel on January 24, 2007, 01:31:30 PM
Several years ago most of the major tech journals in all surveys were showing Linux as the #2 OS in use by the average home user. 

The last study that I've read was from June-July of 2006, and showed Windows at about 90%, Mac OS at about 5% and Linux at about 5%.

Quote from: Brice Manuel on January 24, 2007, 01:31:30 PM
Major retailers like Walmart have been selling preinstalled Linux machines for several years in stores and online and they have been a huge factor in making Linux machines readily available for the average home user.  Our local Walmart has some nice Linspire and Xandros machines.  Excellent choices for the average home user, and extremely user friendly and handles anything the average home user would want to do on a PC.

I don't know that I would describe those systems as nice. The ones that I have seen have been low-end boxes, manufactured cheaply. Personally, I wouldn't buy one anymore than I would by a "Sanyo" television instead of a Sony. And given that most of those folks who buy one are going to want to run Windows applications, that means they've got to cross their fingers and hope that they work under WINE and friends.

As far as "anything the average home user would want to do" on a computer, I guess if you're talking about surfing the web or using OpenOffice to write a letter, sure. But if little Johnny wants to play World of Warcraft, or lilttle Suzy wants to play Barbie Mermaid Adventures, then good luck there. Not to mention that software the Mom and Dad might want to run, say TurboTax, Quicken, etc. are a no-go as well. So I think the use of "anything" is overstating it just a smidge. ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 24, 2007, 11:15:50 PM
Let's not turn this into a Linux vs Windows vs Mac thread please.  The thread was an annoucement as to how I am going to provide the products under linux, and to lay out the plan for the future.  Here are some interesting facts from my perspective as an author:

About 1 out of 5 emails I currently get ask about Linux support, from prospective customers that don't yet own our software.  In 10 years that adds up to 1000's of potential users.  Not to mention the requests from actual businesses that were looking for a new development system for Linux.  Business people would pay for support, and that income is something we really need.

I have received, over the last 10 years, perhaps 2 emails asking about Mac support.  The only request for Mac support is from about 5 of the users here on the forums.

The Mac is constantly changing, it is only now that they are producing Intel based Macs that I would even consider porting Emergence or Aurora. Whether I would do it or not depends on the availability of hardware and development tools.  If Apple wants to provide me with a free Mac so we can port our software then fine, but I am not going to take food out of the mouths of my family to buy overpriced hardware.  Especially considering what OSX is based on.

Quote
As far as "anything the average home user would want to do" on a computer, I guess if you're talking about surfing the web or using OpenOffice to write a letter, sure. But if little Johnny wants to play World of Warcraft, or lilttle Suzy wants to play Barbie Mermaid Adventures, then good luck there. Not to mention that software the Mom and Dad might want to run, say TurboTax, Quicken, etc. are a no-go as well. So I think the use of "anything" is overstating it just a smidge. Wink

If we embrace Linux then there will be more developers writing software for Linux.  Not that I would ever want to see a port of "Barbie" on my machine ;).

Linux is really quite an easy OS to write code for.  Once you get used to the nature of the file system and how shared and static libraries are handled you'll love it as well.  I think the stigma that "Linux is hard" was perpetuated by the hacker types that flocked to it in the beginning.  They flocked to it not so much because it was free, not because it wasn't Windows, but because it was a programmers OS and there isn't anything 'hidden' in Linux.  Hell it took a court order just to get Microsoft to reveal some of the internal API functions that we already knew existed, and had been using for years.

Linux is a good desktop OS, and is a mainstream OS, and is used by millions of users worldwide.  With Emergance and Aurora for Linux you will be able to write programs for those users using the same code base you do on the Windows versions.  And as Doc has already stated those users don't mind paying for quality, unique software. 

Later,
Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Dennisc on January 25, 2007, 01:15:35 AM
And in South Africa and other countries, Macs are either not available, too expensive, or just not popular. Windows and Linux - go for it. I am going to convert one of my machines to Linux in anticipation..... ;) :)

Dennis
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 25, 2007, 04:39:45 AM
Thought you folks might want a peek... image attached.

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Tom Cone Jr on January 25, 2007, 06:40:10 AM
Indie Language ???

Revealing the pitiful state of my vocabulary, can someone enlighten me as what this means?  The term's been used several times in this thread and everyone seems to know what it means but me.   Thanks.

-- tom
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on January 25, 2007, 07:02:38 AM
Since I have been one of those asking for Linux - I just sent my contribution.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 25, 2007, 07:09:37 AM
Quote from: David Coker on January 25, 2007, 04:39:45 AM
Thought you folks might want a peek... image attached.

-Doc-


Doc,
Glad it worked.  I will have some more test programs this evening for you to run. 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 25, 2007, 07:10:47 AM
Quote from: Tom Cone Jr on January 25, 2007, 06:40:10 AM
Indie Language ???

Revealing the pitiful state of my vocabulary, can someone enlighten me as what this means?  The term's been used several times in this thread and everyone seems to know what it means but me.   Thanks.

-- tom

Independantly created language made by someone other than a large software company, such as Microsoft. 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 25, 2007, 07:12:46 AM
Quote from: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on January 25, 2007, 07:02:38 AM
Since I have been one of those asking for Linux - I just sent my contribution.


Thank you.  You have the honor of being the #2 Linux Contributor ;)

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on January 25, 2007, 10:09:33 AM
BTW I have my own home made version of Linux. I built it a couple of years back.
2.4.22 Kernel.
The program ran fine here.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Bruce Peaslee on January 25, 2007, 01:13:19 PM
This says it all...
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 25, 2007, 04:37:32 PM
QuoteGlad it worked.  I will have some more test programs this evening for you to run.

That sounds great, Paul!
The screen shot was of it running on Simply Mepis Linux, taken this morning before heading to work...
I'm getting ready to install the latest Ubuntu version here in just a few minutes since I'd rather do all my initial testing using the same distro you are using. I'll be ready to roll here in a bit. :)

-Doc-

Edit: Ubuntu fully installed and updated, with everything working flawlessly. Ready to roll.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: seberbach on January 26, 2007, 11:38:15 AM
I do not see any real disagreement possible about Windows vs. Linux. vs. OSX.

Linux is new, it is a developer's OS because it is an enabling technology for developers who want some control over their destiny, and not depend on the generosity of a large corporation to share internal, read essential to developers, information.

I notice Apple planning to use OSX in cell phones.  I do not think it will be too hard to port Aurora and EB applications developed under Linux to Apple's cell phones in a few years, or to Nokia's cell phones, for that matter.

Porting to Linux seems to me simply a good way to open up Aurora and EB to people who wish to develop applications which are future-proof and will be portable to most platforms created in the future.

The big issue to me, is will i be able to maintain hardware control in my little applications I am learning how to develop now, down the road when corporate moguls try to lock people in with digital rights management, as proprietary lock-in is now so-called.

Steve
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: barry on January 26, 2007, 12:41:53 PM
That's what I love about the OS wars; flowery language and well adorned slogans. :)

All true.  All important to someone.  None important.

There is no good OS.  That's our hope for the future.  There is no bad OS.  There is no wrong OS and there is no right OS.  There's only "I want" and "I need" and "I like" to consider.

The same thing is true for word processors, text editors, CPUs and the miriad other religious icons of the computer wars.

Programming languages are the exception, of course.  There is a bad programming language but it's name, "brain****" can't be mentioned in a family forum.  And it's excuse is that it was very carefully and cleverly designed to be the worse possible programming language.

Barry
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Mike Stefanik on January 26, 2007, 01:16:37 PM
I don't know, FALSE is pretty much as bad as Brainf--k is in terms of syntax with code like:


ÃÆ'Ã...¸[^$1_=~][,]#
99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]#


Of course, BF looks like ASCII art, so it's hard to say which is worse. What motivates folks to make stuff like this, I'll never understand myself.  ::)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Parker on January 26, 2007, 04:44:04 PM
I thought that was a regular expression with the []'s at first. It sure doesn't look like a language to me...
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Bruce Peaslee on January 26, 2007, 04:52:24 PM
There are developers out there who compete with each other over who can write the most obscure language.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Zen on January 26, 2007, 09:36:16 PM
Whitespace was always a fun one to look at.

Lewis
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 26, 2007, 10:49:48 PM
Stay on topic please ;)

Attached to this post is another test program compiled with Emergence for Linux.  It is the old heapsort demo.

Download the attachment, RENAME TO REMOVE THE .ZIP extension, chmod 755 to make it an executable and run in your terminal with ./heapsort

Let me know if it works on your system.

Thanks,
Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 26, 2007, 10:59:59 PM
Works perfectly!

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 26, 2007, 11:06:44 PM
Thanks.  I picked the program because it covered string commands, random numbers, math, etc.  The only change I had to make between windows and linux was the call to GetTickCount which of course is a Windows API function.  Cut paste and compile ;)

What I will probably do is change the MILLISECS command, which in windows points to GetTickCount, so that it works in either OS.  Wasn't hard to come up with the alternative either, under Linux the gettimeofday function returns the number of seconds and microseconds elpased since January 1st 1970. 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 26, 2007, 11:10:38 PM
Sounds like a plan. :)

BTW, it's pretty darned quick too:
QuoteSorted 1000000 items in  7.2900 seconds -------

-Doc-

Edit:
Figured I'd better mention that I'm using an old 1.4Ghz / 512RAM laptop with the latest Ubuntu distro for testing purposes.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 26, 2007, 11:57:58 PM
Heh... being the goof-ball that I am, I really trashed the system pretty good for awhile.   :o

I bumped the heapsort test up to 2000000 and it gobbled up all the system resources. That wasn't good enough so after killing the process and rebooting the system, I tried it a second time with the system monitor running. When it finally locked up again, here's what was reported:

CPU - 10.9%
User Memory Used -  97.8%
Swap File Used - 48.8%

Sorry, but I was obviously unable to get the results of the test.  ::)  :D

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 27, 2007, 12:03:51 AM
lol.  There are limits to available memory.  2000000 * 255 = 510,000,000 bytes dynamically allocated for the random strings.  I didn't write the original example program, but it could be changed to something a bit shorter ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Dennisc on January 27, 2007, 12:06:42 AM
To all you Linux "wunderkinder" out there from a Linux dumb-dumb. I have a spare machine under Win XP at present which I would like to use to play around with Linux. I also have the Ubuntu version on CD. For the uninitiated like me, can I run both OSs on the same machine? Must I partition my disk? Or must I simply kill Windows and go native Linux? Can someone point me to a simple tutorial on getting a machine set up under Linux.

Paul, you can count me in as a contributor ($50) as soon as I can get a Linux facility up and running. I have developed some large commercial programs under IBasic and EBasic (all converted to EB) and can help with testing the Linux version using them. They are API-less and use virtually every "common" EB command.

Regards
Dennis
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 27, 2007, 12:26:51 AM
Yes you can dual boot the machine.  You have to repartition with a program such as Partition Magic.  I use a free 'tools' cd that I downloaded off of the net, don't remember where.  Here is another one that uses the same program though:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/25/1917228

Just download the ISO and burn a CD with nero, EZCD or whatever you have.  Stick it in the drive and reboot.

Note that if you have used XP extensively on that machine that you will need a good defragmenter first since the XP NTFS scatters data all around the drive, making repartitioning difficult at best. 

Also Ubuntu might come with gtparted now, it has been a while since I have had to resize a partition since I just use a spare drive for Linux now.  Boot with the Ubuntu CD and see if it gives you the option to resize.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Dennisc on January 27, 2007, 12:29:32 AM
Thanks Paul - will give it a shot!
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Jerry Muelver on January 27, 2007, 01:43:30 AM
Quote from: Paul Turley on January 27, 2007, 12:03:51 AM
lol.  There are limits to available memory.  2000000 * 255 = 510,000,000 bytes dynamically allocated for the random strings.  I didn't write the original example program, but it could be changed to something a bit shorter ;)
That would be me. A way around would be to build a file with 2M strings and sort that, maybe. I would likely use a different algorithm (merge sort?) in that case, although I love heapsort!
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Pip1957 on January 27, 2007, 02:31:10 AM
Just sent payment Cheers ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 27, 2007, 08:56:31 AM
Thanks Philip.  You are contributor #3 ;) 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: mrainey on January 27, 2007, 09:03:15 AM
Ballpark figure - how much hard drive space would I need to set up a dual-boot Linux partition - installing nothing more than would be needed to create and fully test my EBasic Linux conversions?
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 27, 2007, 10:29:22 AM
Hey Mike,
That really depends a lot on the distro you install. Ubuntu for example, does not allow you to preselect the packages (software for the Linux noobs out there) and will install the entire default system. In that case, with a swap file partiton, you will probably need around 8-10GB of free space to start with.  You may get by with less, but it's an iffy kind of deal.

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: mrainey on January 27, 2007, 10:34:03 AM
Thanks Doc.  Ten's a nice round number - I'll use that for my planning.


                                           Mike
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 27, 2007, 11:14:16 AM
For those that may be new to Linux and contemplating a dual-boot setup with XP, I thought I'd add a few pointers to help you avoid some  problems.

#1  Backup your important data!

#2  Defrag your drive

#3  If possible, use a well known partitioning tool and in any case, read the instructions or help file BEFORE you get started. Guessing can and will often cause you grief.

#4  Dig out your copy of the XP installation media and keep it close at hand.

#5  Read rules #1, #2 and #3 again.

#6 When asked where to write the boot record, it's usually safer to replace the existing MBR (Master Boot Record) file.

Here's the meat of this message:
If you have a catastrophe and the system won't boot... don't panic! Assuming that you overwrote the original MBR file as suggested, you can recover the windows system very easily using the following technique:

Pop in the XP installation media and reboot. When you get to the menu, select the "Recovery Console" option.

You will be asked to "Select the windows Installation you wish to mount", which for most folks will be only one option.

1. C:\Windows XP

Next you will be asked for the Admin password. If you have an admin password enter it, if not leave it blank and press enter to continue.

Once you reach the command prompt in the recovery console, type in "FIXMBR" and press enter. You will be asked if that's really what you want to do... answer yes and press enter.

"A new master boot record has been written"

Type "exit" to leave the recovery console and reboot.

Windows XP should now start normally. Whew! ...what a relief!  ::)

...now you can try it all over again.  Remember, practice make perfect. ;D

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Barney on January 27, 2007, 04:09:08 PM
Or just use another disk for Linux and/or other operating systems. Makes life much easier than using all those partitions.

Barney
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: mrainey on January 27, 2007, 04:45:41 PM
QuoteOr just use another disk for Linux and/or other operating systems. Makes life much easier than using all those partitions.

Would for sure, but my Toshiba laptop won't boot from a USB drive.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 27, 2007, 05:54:22 PM
You don't need it to boot from the USB drive.  Grub loads from the MBR of the main drive and can boot Linux of an external drive with no problems.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: seberbach on January 27, 2007, 08:16:31 PM
Another option is to use VMware Player and one of the small Linux "appliances".

http://www.vmware.com/products/free_virtualization.html

Since EBasic is not bloated in nature, it should compile and/or run on simple Linux distros on small VMs.

If you crash a VM, it can be restarted from scratch (previous backup of entire system) or you could even use a "persistent" disk containing the OS which boots from its original state every reboot.

Steve
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: seberbach on January 27, 2007, 08:27:01 PM
OOPS!

I meant to say "Non-persistent".

http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/121
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on January 28, 2007, 05:30:15 AM
I have a dual boot windoz and linux on a 20 gig drv - ~9+ gig each. (IBM Thinkpad)
Works OK but would not be the greatest setup. I think 15-20 gig each would work nicely.
This would give you plenty of play room.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 28, 2007, 08:04:22 AM
What are you people installing?   My Ubuntu setup exists on a 6GB drive, I  have all of the programming tools installed, a lot of IDE's and editors, tons of graphics programs and still have about 2GB free.

Maybe it's because I use gnome exclusively and only have the KDE libs installed to run QT apps.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Barney on January 28, 2007, 09:55:51 AM
Obviously, you are not into video production, Paul. I have 1.2 TB connected to my machine and there are times when it is just not enough. Sometimes I wish I never started turning home videos made by my friends into DVD's.  ::)

Barney
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 28, 2007, 09:59:32 AM
QuoteWhat are you people installing?
I typically partition the drive where including the swap file, it uses about 50% of the total free space on the drive, which is actually massive overkill. Excluding the swap, with just about everything I could ever want already installed, I'm using roughly 2.8 GB out of the 18+ that was available. On the windows side, I've got about 8GB free from the 19+ that I left before partitioning. Where I once was a dye in the wool KDE guy, I now actually prefer Gnome and that's all I use exclusively.

One thing I've noticed recently is that many of the major distro's are now defaulting to 20GB or more for a standard installation, even though it's not really needed. Most new users I'm sure, are just accepting the defaults in order to avoid potential partitioning problems. None of the recent trials with SuSe, Mepis and Ubuntu would accept the more than adequate partitioning scheme I had already set up, without forcing me into "expert" mode prior to installation.  ::)

I will add this... the recent Ubuntu installation I did (6.10) turned out perfectly. I simply couldn't be more pleased with the results and overall usability.

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Barney on January 28, 2007, 12:10:37 PM
BTW. I've just run into a Christian version of Ubuntu. Perhaps of interest to people who are more into religious stuff.

Ubuntu Christian Edition (http://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/christianubuntu/2006/07/about-ubuntu-christian-edition.html)

Barney
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Kale on January 28, 2007, 02:48:30 PM
Quote from: Barney on January 28, 2007, 12:10:37 PM
BTW. I've just run into a Christian version of Ubuntu. Perhaps of interest to people who are more into religious stuff.

Ubuntu Christian Edition (http://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/christianubuntu/2006/07/about-ubuntu-christian-edition.html)

Barney

I don't think i have seen a more absurd and ridiculous thing in my life!

Quote
The goal of Ubuntu Christian Edition is to bring the power and security of Ubuntu to Christians.

??? Can't christians use the regular distro? What an absolute joke.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 28, 2007, 03:35:56 PM
Gary,
Please respect other peoples opinions on this board.  You quoted a single sentance from the Christian edition but failed to mention that it includes software designed for those doing bible study.  It also includes special parental controls.  So it is neither "rediculous" or "absurd"

Thank you Barney for pointing out an interesting Ubuntu distribution.  I am sure there are a lot of churches in my area that would be interested in it.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 28, 2007, 03:42:44 PM
People of all walks of life have a tendency to develop common associations according to their likes and/or beliefs (including politics, religion, sports, etc.). It's really not any different than folks who wear t-shirts depicting their favorite sports team or rock group.

"Why can't they just wear plain t-shirts?"

...what difference does it make?

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 28, 2007, 04:47:04 PM
Another test program.  The mastermind game (master.eba).

Rename to remove the .ZIP extension and chmod 755 to make it an executable.

NOTE:  This program will only work properly using the Gnome terminal, The Gnome terminal responds to selecting the default font from the video rom, which happens to have the same character graphics as the Windows console.  It will run on xterm and konsole but won't quite look right unless you can make konsole use Microsofts 'terminal' font or somehow convince it to use the bitmap font from the video rom.

xterm and konsole do respond correctly to absolute character addressing so the game is playable either way.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: LarryMc on January 28, 2007, 05:56:05 PM
QuoteGary,
Please respect other peoples opinions on this board. ..... It also includes special parental controls.  So it is neither "rediculous" or "absurd"

Thank you Barney for pointing out an interesting Ubuntu distribution.  I am sure there are a lot of churches in my area that would be interested in it.
Thanks Paul and Barney
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 28, 2007, 06:26:50 PM
Seems to be working just fine here.... and I'm gonna beat that sucker yet!  ;)

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Jerry Muelver on January 28, 2007, 06:42:21 PM
Fair's fair. "Ubuntu" means "humanness" and "humanity towards others", and stresses inclusiveness. After all, both KDE and Gnome dwell in peaceful cohabitation on the Ubuntu core. See the Edubuntu Home Page (http://www.edubuntu.org/), "Linux for young human beings," for a more generic youth-oriented distro.

And just to balance things out, there's a Satanic Ubuntu Edition (http://parker1.co.uk/satanic/) as well.

I expect my reality-based Ebasic Linux programs to run equally well on all of them!
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 28, 2007, 09:43:41 PM
Here is the contributors page:

http://www.ionicwind.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=38

Join in the fun and be a supporter ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 29, 2007, 06:51:35 AM
The off topic posts were removed.  Please behave yourselves our I'll sick my dog after you  :o
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 29, 2007, 07:25:34 PM
Paul,
Were all three of the Linux samples we've seen so far, compiled using the new Emergence?

Assuming that is a yes, will EBL (???) be the first one released or will both Linux languages be built along the same general time frames?

...just being curious as to what the general game plan looks like. :)

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 29, 2007, 08:46:11 PM
Yes they were compiled with Emergence BASIC.  And it will be first.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on January 31, 2007, 08:12:12 AM
I guess I will need to take time and start learning Ebasic.
Have just gotten to a point where my Aurora programs work - most of the time.
Chomping at the bit for the Linux release of anything - are we there yet - are we there yet ------ :)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on January 31, 2007, 08:40:57 AM
lol I am coding as fast as I can ;)

About 40% of the emergence command set is now functional in Linux.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on February 01, 2007, 10:47:20 AM
Just contributed  ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 01, 2007, 10:56:45 AM
Thanks Brice.  You're #5. 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 04, 2007, 09:03:28 AM
Just an update.

The conversion is progressing along.  Slowly at times, quickly at others ;).   The basic windowing system works now and you can do things like open windows, draw lines, rectangles and such, and respond to events (messages). 

The biggest headache in building this is GTK-2.0.  Yes it is a fairly powerful toolkit for making GUI apps on Linux, but it is lacking in a few areas that would make you scratch your head and wonder.   GUI event processing with GTK is basically single threaded which makes building a GUI that is responsive to user input, while being able to do background tasks, a bit of a nightmare.  Yes you can make multiple threads easily on Linux, and even in a GTK program.  But you can't update the GUI itself in a 'worker' thread, only from the main thread.  Forcing the use of such odd things as idle-time callbacks.  In that respect the Windows API is a bit better, or at least documented much better ;)

On the outside you won't see too much difference in your own code.  I am trying to keep the changes needed to user code to a minimum to compile in the Linux version.  You'll still be able to use the same 'handlers' like you do now, internally it is much different though. 

In any event I am shooting to have a new test program ready by this evening.  And I will need all of you that have Linux to give it a run so I can be sure of linker settings, dependancies and such. 

Paul.

P.S. Don't forget to contribute :-*, it is only through user contributions that we are able to bring the linux versions to light.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on February 04, 2007, 07:33:32 PM
QuoteIn any event I am shooting to have a new test program ready by this evening.  And I will need all of you that have Linux to give it a run so I can be sure of linker settings, dependancies and such.

Sounds good! :)

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 05, 2007, 07:13:22 AM
Almost done.  It got too cold in my computer room last night so went to bed instead ;). 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Jerry Muelver on February 05, 2007, 02:54:57 PM
It was 28 deg F below zero in your old Wisconsin stamping grounds last night. Wind chill was minus 45.... Had to pour a jug of hot water over the latches on the spa cover to melt the ice out so I could get in and take my hot tub relaxing soak. Getting back, wet and nekkid, 30 yards to the house was pretty bracing....  ::)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: LarryMc on February 05, 2007, 03:10:24 PM
Quotewet and nekkid, 30 yards to the house
A little more information than I needed! ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Jerry Muelver on February 05, 2007, 04:16:04 PM
Quote from: Larry McCaughn on February 05, 2007, 03:10:24 PM
Quotewet and nekkid, 30 yards to the house
A little more information than I needed! ;)
Oh. Then you probably don't want to read all the cold facts at http://hytext.com/articles/spa.htm ....  ::)

I hope Paul starts a nice, new thread for updating info on EBasic Linux, I hope, I hope....
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Barney on February 05, 2007, 04:24:48 PM
ROTFL!!! Fantastic! Great!

Jerry you made my day (actually it's night now but who cares) with your hot dip drama. A real slapstick comedy at its best.  ;D

Barney
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on February 05, 2007, 06:45:52 PM
Jerry's story certainly isn't one that I'd ever want to witness, but it's always good for a laugh each and every time I've read it over the years.  :D

You are a genuine hoot Jerry Muelver!  ;D

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: GWS on February 06, 2007, 12:48:03 AM
I shall always carry a mental image of this strange American character snow-blowing in the nudee .. :)

Jerry you're priceless ..  ;D

I'd like to see a section for Linux newbies to be able to ask for advice from the experts.

I'm hoping in the next few weeks to get a spare machine that I can load Linux and try to figure out how people manage in a world without .exe files .. ::)

I don't know which version to go for either.   I know many of you use Ubuntu.  I've tried Linspire, and Amazon do Suse .. all get pretty good reports.

Anyway, take care Jerry, wouldn't want you to catch pneumonia. :)

best wishes,

Graham
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on February 06, 2007, 04:05:09 AM
QuoteI shall always carry a mental image of this strange American character snow-blowing in the nudee ..
Sounds like a deleted scene from Fargo ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on February 06, 2007, 07:35:20 PM
Quote from: Paul Turley on February 04, 2007, 09:03:28 AM
The biggest headache in building this is GTK-2.0.  Yes it is a fairly powerful toolkit for making GUI apps on Linux, but it is lacking in a few areas that would make you scratch your head and wonder.   GUI event processing with GTK is basically single threaded which makes building a GUI that is responsive to user input, while being able to do background tasks, a bit of a nightmare.
You can do it, Paul  ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: JimH on February 06, 2007, 09:36:40 PM
While I seldom get the chance anymore to spend much time with programming, I do value and hope to encourage usable software development tools for Linux.

My contribution is "on the wire".  :D

   <*> Jim
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 06, 2007, 10:45:41 PM
Thank you Jim for being contributor #6 ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 07, 2007, 11:35:17 AM
OK as promissed, a few days late, here is another test program.  Rename to remove the .zip extension, chmod to make it executable, and run by either double clicking in nautilus or using ./gtk_test from a terminal

This is the first test of Emergence Linux using a few windowing commands like OPENWINDOW, CLOSEWINDOW, SETWINDOWCOLOR, LINE, etc.  It presents a window with 500 randomly colored lines drawn.  Pressing the right mouse button clears the window and draws a new set of random lines.

Let me know any dependancy issues.

Thanks,
Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on February 07, 2007, 11:53:38 AM
Works for me.
I can execute it from a console window but it does not work as an icon on the desktop - strange.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 07, 2007, 11:59:19 AM
The gnome desktop uses launchers, kind of like Windows shortcut icons.  Right click on the desktop and choose "create launcher" pick a name for it, browse to the executable, and pick an icon.

Or you can use nautilus, and just double click on an exectuable directly.  I did notice that if you remove the .zip extension from nautilus and then try immediatly double clicking it doesn't work.  Clicking on the "reload" icon solved that.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on February 07, 2007, 12:49:09 PM
I got it to work by selecting open with another application and using 'sh' as the launcher.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on February 07, 2007, 04:43:45 PM
Finally got home from work so I could try it out... works great on this end as well.

I dropped it on the desktop, renamed it and set the permissions and it launches with a double-click just as expected.

Cool beans!

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 08, 2007, 09:57:41 AM
And the next test program is ready.  Rename to remove the .zip extension, chmod to make it executable, and run by either double clicking in nautilus or using ./christmas_tree from a terminal

This is Larry A's christmas tree generator that has been adapted so many times ;).  We are to the point now that programs like this almost compile without any changes at all.  The font subsytem is not yet complete so the text on the greeting is just a default font, that will change soon ;)

Post a screen shot of it so we can compare.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on February 08, 2007, 10:37:25 AM
Works here - looks just like the Windows one.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: LarryA on February 08, 2007, 02:46:34 PM
So... I guess I can say I've written a Linux program.  ;)

Did you ever add a timing delay to that? Half the fun, in IBasic Standard (and a slower computer) was watching the random branches and needles grow... last time I ran it in IBasic Pro on current computer, it just appeared as a finished picture immediately  :( .  I guess that demonstrates how fast the language is though.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on February 08, 2007, 05:20:56 PM
Again, it works just fine here!

QuotePost a screen shot of it so we can compare.

Alrighty then...

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 08, 2007, 06:04:32 PM
Thanks Doc.  Since you're using a different theme than I am it shows that I am getting drawing sizes correct ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Parker on February 08, 2007, 06:21:11 PM
I just tested the programs, they're really impressive. I think a lot of people will like being able to write code once and compile it on multiple platforms. Kinda like C++ except without the frustration, external dependencies, compiler incompatibilities, etc ;). Hopefully two stable cross platform compilers will bring many more buyers.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: mrainey on February 08, 2007, 07:57:42 PM
Hey Linux weenies,

I thought I might as well play a little, so downloaded the CD Installer for Ubuntu 6.10.  I burned the ISO and started the boot process - got past the opening Run or Install screen okay, but a minute or two later the process got stuck on an endless series of "Buffer I/O Error on device hdc, logical block xx"" (each line showed a different logical block number).

My XP installation runs fine.

What might the error mean?
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on February 08, 2007, 08:11:16 PM
Gee Mike,
I wish I could be of help, but I've never encountered anything like like...

Did you by chance do a checksum test on the download to verify that it was good? Over the years I've ended up with my share of bad ISO files, which can create all kinds of havoc.

-Doc-

Edit: Added link to a free MD5 tool for Windows.

http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/winmd5sum
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 08, 2007, 08:11:30 PM
hdc is your CDROM drive.  Burn the ISO at a slower speed and try again.  I have had bad burns do that before and setting the write speed to 8x solved it.  It could also be a corrupted download.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: mrainey on February 08, 2007, 08:16:28 PM
I'll try the slower burn speed first.  If that doesn't help, I'll try a combination of new download, checksum validation, and slower burn speed.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Kale on February 09, 2007, 06:50:26 AM
Quote from: mrainey on February 08, 2007, 07:57:42 PM
Hey Linux weenies,

I thought I might as well play a little, so downloaded the CD Installer for Ubuntu 6.10.  I burned the ISO and started the boot process - got past the opening Run or Install screen okay, but a minute or two later the process got stuck on an endless series of "Buffer I/O Error on device hdc, logical block xx"" (each line showed a different logical block number).

My XP installation runs fine.

What might the error mean?


I had the same problem using the free ubuntu disk you can order. I bought a new CD drive and all was ok. My drive must of been faulty.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: mrainey on February 09, 2007, 02:28:41 PM
Slow burn speed did the trick for me.  A quick visit to the Ubuntu forum made it clear that the problem has been seen by others, and that it's not just with Ubuntu.  Variability in ISO burn quality and CD drives seem to be the prime suspects - which you and I more or less  confirm.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Kale on February 09, 2007, 02:51:13 PM
I must admit that Ubuntu really does rock. I tried using mandrake linux years ago as a test and got on ok but had to give it up because i like my pc games to much. ;)

Ubuntu makes me go wow everytime i boot it up and have a play but i always have to come back to windoze because the support for (my) hardware and games just isn't there in ubuntu. It's really a shame for me as i really want to leave MS behind. ??? I'm hoping in the future real wireless network support is added (open source) by a big player and that ATI and NVidia start an open source driver project. Only then will gamers like me move and hopefully MS will lose market share. I look forward to this. :)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on February 09, 2007, 05:16:57 PM
QuoteI'm hoping in the future real wireless network support is added (open source) by a big player...
The real problem here has little to do with Linux of any variety. It the hardware folks that are causing problems by not building drivers or at the very least, releasing the code to be ported by others.

Perhaps one day the Linux user-base will have the $clout$ required to get their attention.  :-\

If you are having trouble with the wireless, I might be able to help you out... The wireless on the laptop used for my current Ubuntu installation is rock solid (finally). I'll be glad to pass along some pointers and/or instructions. :)

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Jerry Muelver on February 09, 2007, 08:00:02 PM
Doc, I got Ubuntu running on a 7-year-old Compaq box, and 10-year-old Dell Inspiron. I've got a Dell wireless card for the Inspiron. I'm thinking I should just drag the Dell to a wifi station and see what happens. Any hints?
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 09, 2007, 08:27:44 PM
Quote
Doc, I got Ubuntu running on a 7-year-old Compaq box, and 10-year-old Dell Inspiron. I've got a Dell wireless card for the Inspiron. I'm thinking I should just drag the Dell to a wifi station and see what happens. Any hints?

Bottom line is it depends on the chipset in the wireless card.  Realtek chips work well, I have had a few problems with Prism based wireless cards, but none that I couldn't solve.

The biggest problems under linux seem to be with the USB stick style wireless adapters.  I had a netgear MA111 that took me forever to get to work reliably, it was a USB device with a Prism 2 chipset. 

Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on February 09, 2007, 09:05:10 PM
QuoteI had a netgear MA111 that took me forever to get to work reliably, it was a USB device with a Prism 2 chipset.
I haven't had good luck with any NETGEAR hardware under Linux.  I could never get my NETGEAR USB to Ethernet Adapter working on my internet system when Linux was installed.  Part of why I am still using XP to connect to the net.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on February 09, 2007, 09:13:54 PM
Hey Jer,

Paul is correct... it always comes down to the chipset used. However! I've found that the NdisWrapper utility works for a pretty large variety of cards, assuming of course you can get you hands on the original Windows drivers.

If you do not have the drivers, here is a link to a wiki-page that can be helpful:
http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/index.php/

Once you have the drivers available, install NdisWrapper using Synaptics and then let me know. I'll throw together a mini-tutorial explaining all the steps that seems to work with the current Ubuntu distro. 

For reasons I cannot explain, previous Ubuntu distro's (all Debian based distro's for that matter) have been impossible to get working on this end and I had just about given up on the idea.  I was so shocked when it worked so well, I actually wiped the partition and re-installed to make sure I wasn't dreaming.  ::)

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 10, 2007, 06:26:27 AM
A thank yoou goes out to Randall Brodka for being Linux Contributor #7. 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on February 10, 2007, 07:06:18 PM
Paul, a few questions:

1.  Do you forsee any problems porting the existing 2D commands over to Linux?
2.  On Linux, for windowed games, when we size a window will it be sized by client size?
3.  Coding-wise is there anything we need to worry about, avoid or do to make sure our programs will make the transition to Linux as hassle-free as possible?


Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 10, 2007, 08:44:46 PM
#1.  Won't know until I get into them.  Should really change the names of the commands, just feels weird using OpenGL on Linux with commands named DX...   Of course that is not an issue with Aurora.

#2.  In GTK, QT, etc,  the size you give a window is the client size, which is the opposite of the Windows way of doing it.  Which has to do with the way X works.  Window managers in Linux add decorations (caption, scrollbars, etc) to the windows after it is created, and there is no reliable way of specifying a "total" window size since the size of the decorations aren't know until after the window is created.  When you think about it the X way makes more sense.

#3. The only really big change so far is the message loop.  In Windows you have to roll your own and modify it to do special processing like accelerators, dialog message processing, etc.  Emergence for Windows has a custom message loop that exits after each queue full of messages is processed so you can check for external variables.  Hence the WAITUNTIL statement.

Using GTK+ there isn't an advantage to rolling your own loop as events are handled quite differently.  I am still making up my mind on how we want to handle that.  Currently I have two commands, WAIT and ENDWAIT, which start the event loop and end it.  WAIT 1 still functions as before.  So in Windows if you were doing:

...
WAITUNTIL run = 0
END

SELECT @MESSAGE
     CASE @IDCLOSEWINDOW
          CLOSEWINDOW win
           run = 0

In Linux it looks like this:

...
WAIT
END

SELECT @MESSAGE
      CASE @IDCLOSEWINDOW
           CLOSEWINDOW win
               ENDWAIT:' exits the event loop started by WAIT.
...

The reason for this is it is perfectly valid to have more than one WAIT command in Linux.  ENDWAIT exits the innermost encountered one.

As for other things to watch for...well there isn't a Windows API on Linux, obviously, so if you are using a lot of imports from the Windows DLLs you'll need to find other ways to do it.  As an oddity you can actually link with the wine libraries and the imports will resolve, havent tried it yet though ;)

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on February 12, 2007, 07:26:13 PM
One more question, on Linux, for windowed games, do you expect the Flip command will still be able to return the FPS?

Thanks for answering the other questions, Paul.  No major hurdles, it seems.  As to the API issues I already rewrote to take two custom DLLs out. 
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 12, 2007, 10:10:07 PM
Again I haven't really gotten into converting the 2D commands.  But I don't see a problem returning the FPS as it is just a simple thing.  Add up the number of frames per second.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Blue Steel on February 13, 2007, 07:40:14 AM
All 3 demos work using Mandriva Linux 2007 ;)

Attached are snapshots of my first game of mastermind

;) yes i won and got onto the high score list ;)

Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on February 13, 2007, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: Paul Turley on February 12, 2007, 10:10:07 PM
Again I haven't really gotten into converting the 2D commands.  But I don't see a problem returning the FPS as it is just a simple thing.
Sorry, wasn't trying to be annoying ;D The way it works in EB is somewhate unique when compared to other languages and it is the cornerstone for my timing and animation methods. ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: SMartin on February 23, 2007, 08:20:20 PM
Paul,

I was happy to hear that you're taking EB and Aurora over to Linux.
All this talk about Ubuntu made me want to try it out. The install went fine except for the wireless (always a problem) and graphic acceleration on my laptop's NVidia card.
After some searching I found a tutorial and drivers for my wireless and a nice little program called envy that got my acceleration working.

The only thing that has kept me from sticking with linux through the years was the lack of a programming package that someone of my level (no so high) could get in to. I'm certainly no authority, but it appears that your products are a good fit for a wide range of skill levels, from beginner to  very experienced.

I hope you do well and get yourself a nice big mansion right there between Bill Gates and Linus......

Anyway, now to my question.....

I actually installed Kubuntu and later added the Ubunto desktop because I though I might need it for Emergence and Aurora.
Am I mistaken about that? Do I need gnome?
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on February 23, 2007, 08:44:00 PM
You just need GTK 2.0 which is a set of libraries that Gnome is built on top of.  On every linux distro I have seen they are part of the default installation.  So you don't need Gnome itself, just as I don't need KDE to run apps made for KDE, just the libraries.

As a desktop manager I perfer Gnome because of its elegant simplicity and reliability.  Ubuntu is traditionally a Gnome environment. Kubuntu is the port of KDE to Ubuntu.  When I first started getting serious with Linux I used KDE for some time.  Although it is a nice looking interface I found it inconsistant in application interaction.  And it was a bit buggy, at least the last version I tried.  Mostly "kicker" crashes.

For application development the indie developer needs to stick with GTK/Gnome since there isn't any cost involved.  Developing commercial applications for KDE requires aquiring a commercial license from Trolltech. Trolltech holds the copyrights to QT, the graphics library/application toolkit that KDE is built upon.   Their licensing fees are outrageous in todays market.  See for yourself:

http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/licenses/pricing

I personally boycott Trolltech for throttling commercial development for Linux.  And in as much won't install KDE on any Linux machine I have.  Not because KDE is that bad, just because it relies on QT with their archaic licensing scheme.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Parker on February 24, 2007, 08:12:42 PM
Quote from: Paul Turley on February 23, 2007, 08:44:00 PMTheir licensing fees are outrageous in todays market.  See for yourself:

http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/licenses/pricing

No thanks, I'd rather buy a car ::)...
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on March 09, 2007, 09:02:23 AM
Any update - are we getting close?
Are we there yet, Are we there yet, Are we there yet, I gotta go potty. :)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on March 09, 2007, 04:49:47 PM
Yeah, how is progress?  I am really looking forward to the official release party that Larry is sponsoring and hosting at his Farm ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on March 09, 2007, 05:12:57 PM
I am always having a party :)
All you need to do is show up.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: LarryMc on March 09, 2007, 05:18:47 PM
Quote from: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on March 09, 2007, 09:02:23 AM
Any update - are we getting close?
Are we there yet, Are we there yet, Are we there yet, I gotta go potty. :)
Don't make me pulll over!
Don't ever let me catch you kids having fun again!
I'll ground you for the rest of your natural life!
Oh yeah, forgot one.
I'll be glad when you have kids. Paybacks are hell! ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on March 10, 2007, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on March 09, 2007, 05:12:57 PM
I am always having a party :)
All you need to do is show up.
You might not want to say that, I might just take you up on it, lol.  This time of year, I REALLY miss living in Florida.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on March 11, 2007, 05:23:14 AM
If you are passing thru - let me know - I have had several people drop by.
Even had some people from England stop by to see the old tractors.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on March 27, 2007, 07:32:24 AM
Paul:  How are things progressing?


QuoteEven had some people from England stop by to see the old tractors.
You really know how to tempt an old country boy.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on March 27, 2007, 01:24:01 PM
Slowly.  Still only about 10 people interested in the Linux versions.  Spending my time on the courses at the moment.

Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: GPA on March 27, 2007, 06:55:20 PM
Are you judging "interest" based on money being donated to the project? I don't think that's a fair estimator. I don't have the funds to contribute financially, but I'm still interested. I'm also interesed in IWBasic.. now I'm not when or if either of these will see the light of day. If development for projects is strictly based on donations, I think it should be stated clearly and up front, so people who do contribute understand that their money will be sitting and waiting for more people to contribute.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on March 27, 2007, 07:14:55 PM
#1. read the first post of this thread.  I clearly state that the project is donation supported since I am offering them for free and based on interest in the project.  When I release a test executable and only 4 to 5 people actually bother to download it and report back that kind of tells me the interest. 

#2. I am only one person and that only one writing code for all of the projects.  So give me a break.  I've got a family to support and if I spend all of my time on free projects then all of them will fail.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on March 27, 2007, 07:26:48 PM
Quote from: Paul Turley on March 27, 2007, 01:24:01 PMSlowly.
Thanks for answering honestly.  I guess I will have to stick with another basic for my Linux needs, at least for now.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on March 27, 2007, 07:38:09 PM
I guess you will. Unless someone wants to jump in and help write the IDE, anyone?  Thought not.

If I sound a little off, well I am.  I announced the linux project and spent hundreds of hours coding the conversions of the compiler proper in the hopes all of those hundreds of people that used to bug me about IBasic and linux would come out of the woodwork.  What do I get for my work?  Nothing.  A few dedicated users testing the executables I would upload, but not much more.

Then I get the people that say they can't contribute financially, and that's fine, but even $1.00 is a contribution.  Starting a discussion is a contribution, offering to help is a contribution. 

Basically because it is a free offering it is going to be slow, sidetracked along the way, and at times seem to be ignored completely.  When times are good and I am not in such dire straights with money then I will have time to blow and work on Linux projects.  The only other choice is to actually charge a registration fee for it.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on March 27, 2007, 08:37:41 PM
QuoteI guess you will.
I am sorry, I didn't mean to offend you by that.  Although I am a Linux newbie, I am VERY interested in it.

QuoteThe only other choice is to actually charge a registration fee for it.
IMHO, this would be a VERY good idea!  I am sure you would have many takers.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: John Williams on March 28, 2007, 10:27:05 AM
Hi Paul,

I got here thru asking Mike Rainey to support Linux for his metalworking app. I want to run it in the shop and think Linux is a better choice rather than buying another XP license. I tried running it in Wine but failed with a seh:setup_exception... Native support is a better way to go anyway.

IMHO, the problem here is that there are ample other ways to code on the Linux platform, and many of those are free. Seems the value here is to have cross platform support for those that code on Windows but want to provide the application on Linux, as well. At this point, I see little value to have the complete set of tools supported on both code bases. Especially given the fact that the windowing environment is quite different.

If I may suggest that you take the approach of only running the development IDE on Windows for now, and give your customers the ability to move the code to Linux to generate the binaries from a command line. That will give them some capability to meet their needs and not have you to support both code bases in there entirety. If demand increases, you can then decide if further work is necessary. I would also charge for this feature. Not much, say around $10-20 in addition to the base license...optional fee.

Another option is to integrate the tools (compiler, debugger, etc) into a Linux IDE, like Eclipse. That makes more sense to me rather than porting a bunch of IDE code...but I clearly do not understand all of your product so don't know if that is a viable option.

Just my view/opinion. I work in the commercial Linux biz and think there will be some folks that will prefer to migrate to Linux rather than Vista. Considering it myself. Ubuntu is a very credible desktop implementation.

John
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Shannara on March 28, 2007, 02:22:54 PM
That .. i .. holy ... never thought of that. Cross platform compiling? Code in one platform (in this case Windows), and compile the code for use on another platform. In this case, Linux. I *think* there is a compiler, gcc? That allows this. Also, charging for the Linux version really does sound good (for me at least), and I will be one of the first to purchase the sucker. So far I have purchased every compiler (user end) that Paul have released from IBasic Pro to Aurora, to EBasic. And I have no problem showing my support by purchasing cross-os versions of the products.

Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on March 28, 2007, 05:58:06 PM
QuoteI guess you will. Unless someone wants to jump in and help write the IDE, anyone?  Thought not.

Using the same tools, language and compiler that you are using and to the specifications you are looking for in a final product?
...probably not.

On the other hand Paul, there are probably more than a few of us around here that might be able to put together a *use-able* IDE (w/o a form design tool most likely) as a short term solution.
A. Access to a semi-functional compiler (in whatever stage of completion)
B. A simple list of working commands and functions
C. A general description of how to interface the existing compiler from an external application

I can only speak for myself here, but as a general rule of thumb, I personally don't code for Windows at all anymore unless:
A. It's relatively simple
B. It's relatively important
C. It's most definitely work related. (My only real motivating factor)

...I haven't had the desire to code for Windows for a long time now, which is why I seldom post any code or questions around here.

I think we all understand that generating income must be your top priority at the present. Sounds like a sound game plan to me. :)

You might however, be surprised just how much additional interest could be stirred up for the Linux project (w/o a major drain on your time) if the opportunity presented itself under the terms above. ;)

-Doc-

P.S. Good luck with the job interview!  :)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on March 28, 2007, 06:02:43 PM
Sorry about the previous postings.  Was in a very bad mood that evening.

Yes I could provide the current compiler for use with an external IDE with a few instructions on use. The compiler itself works great, you can see the GUI command set is progressing by the examples.  I will have to think on it.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on March 28, 2007, 06:10:33 PM
Just a little food for thought, my friend. ;)

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on April 11, 2007, 08:58:13 AM
How do I get that compiler and instructions?
I would love to play with it.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on April 11, 2007, 04:32:49 PM
Quote from: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on April 11, 2007, 08:58:13 AM
How do I get that compiler and instructions?
I would love to play with it.


double ditto!
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: ExMember001 on May 12, 2007, 05:45:10 PM
bump!
me too would like to see.
then ill make a donation ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on May 27, 2007, 01:06:17 PM
Reviving the linux project.....

Donationware doesn't seem to be working out.  So lets come up with something different.   How about $15 and you can get preview releases of the linux compiler with a few caveats...

1.  You have to install things manually at the moment, no nice RPM or .DEB package yet.

2.  It's completely command line driven right now.  So you either need to be comfortable with the linux shell or use a third party IDE like Anjunta.   Anjunta isn't a perfect solution but it will let you compile and link single source files.

3.  The compiler works, but the command library not completely finished yet, so no bugging me about when ;)

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: ExMember001 on May 27, 2007, 04:01:43 PM
interresting ;)
how can i send the payment to receive the preview release ;)
but i think the linux project should be non-lucrative just an addons to the current compilers.

is there some minimal instruction to install and compile on linux?
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on May 27, 2007, 05:59:11 PM
I'm ready whenever... a peek preview is all we have been asking about so far anyway  ;D

Quote3.  The compiler works, but the command library not completely finished yet, so no bugging me about when  ;)

I don't quite understand what we aren't supposed to be bugging you about... the compiler, unfinished command library or the preview version?

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on May 27, 2007, 07:16:29 PM
The commands of course since you will be using a very early alpha.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on May 28, 2007, 09:26:41 AM
Here is the link to buy into the preview releases:

I will be emailing the needed files with some basic installation instructions sometime tomorrow.  The we can discuss usage right here on the forums.  

You will need the binutils and nasm packages installed as well.  I will see if there are any other dependancies needed and post them here.

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on May 28, 2007, 10:40:24 PM
Sent payment - I thought that is part of what we were getting for donating to the linux project to start with.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on May 28, 2007, 11:32:30 PM
Yes you will get the full versions by making a contribution.  As I've already stated earlier in this thread.

This is just for the preview releases, being able to play with each change that I make, etc.  Something that I would not normally do since it does take a lot of time and effort on my part to make them usable on any system other than mine at this point in the development.  And it will require some personal handholding on my part.  My time has to be worth something afterall.

So in otherwords if you are one of the 12 or so people that have made a contribution, and don't mind waiting for the final versions, then sit back and have patience ;)   But if you just must have a peek now, and can spare the $15, then I don't mind spending the extra time needed to troubleshoot problems you might have with your particular linux distribution trying to run this early alpha of the compiler.

The contribution supported concept was a nice idea in the beginning but so few were interested that the Linux version took a very low priority in my development time. 

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on May 29, 2007, 04:35:47 AM
I'm definitely in.... of course!  ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on May 29, 2007, 05:21:06 AM
Kool - can't wait to start playing with it.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: jerryclement on May 29, 2007, 03:14:18 PM
 :D I'm IN!!

I want to play too in Linux!!

Jerry
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on May 29, 2007, 05:17:10 PM
Welcome to the fun and games to come Jerry! :)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: jerryclement on May 29, 2007, 07:47:02 PM
 ;D

Thanks David, looking forward to it!!

Jerry
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on May 29, 2007, 08:46:28 PM
Still working on the preview instructions...got sidetracked by daughters computer this evening, had massive infections and ended up just  rebuilding from the restore discs, reinstalling all of her programs, finally got her back on the internet about an hour ago ;)

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: ExMember001 on May 29, 2007, 08:49:50 PM
hehe , forget my pm ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on May 29, 2007, 10:11:03 PM
OK info on downloading the archive was sent with instructions on where to put them.  Still working on easy usage instructions through the shell.  Have to reboot into Linux again since I forgot a few dependancies you'll need ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on May 29, 2007, 10:36:08 PM
Awesome, awesome, AWESOME!

Finally a "Turley language" to play with in Linux.  ;D ;D ;D

Be sure to get some rest Paul... we'll all have time to play later. ;)

-Doc-

Edit:
I've been digging through the ebstd.incc file for the Linux version and see a whole lot of user friendly, familiar syntax!

Did I mention that this will be awesome?
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on June 04, 2007, 07:02:55 PM
Although I wish this was available to the Linux contributors, I am drooling with anticipation of the day when we do get to play with it ;D
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: MikeHart on July 06, 2007, 01:37:55 PM
Hi,

could the Linux version of EB used to create games running on a GP2X ?

http://www.gp2x.com

It runs Linux but uses an ARM CPU.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on July 06, 2007, 03:36:45 PM
Nope.  Intel opcodes only ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on July 06, 2007, 06:17:11 PM
Resistance is futile.  Prepare to be assimilated.

(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6t355/tux.gif)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: pistol350 on July 07, 2007, 01:08:31 AM
Hi Brice!
This image is really great
Congrats! 8)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on July 07, 2007, 02:04:31 AM
I can't take credit for that one, but he is a cute lil bugger ;)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Allan on July 18, 2007, 04:06:07 PM
Have Ubuntu Fiesty  installed now for a few days. This is a great Linux OS.   Reading a few different books (6.10 version most of them) and Ubuntu is very impressive.

The last Linux I used a bit was Memphis about 18 months ago and it was nowhere as user friendly as Ubuntu.

Thanks Paul for bringing Ubuntu to my notice.

I can see this OS being a pleasure to work with!

Look forward to seeing your Emergence Linux.

Allan
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Brice Manuel on July 18, 2007, 09:36:12 PM
QuoteReading a few different books (6.10 version most of them) and Ubuntu is very impressive.
Although I have all the books on Ubuntu, I really recommend "Ubuntu Linux Bible".  Single best Ubuntu resource IMHO.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Allan on July 20, 2007, 04:11:51 PM
QuoteAlthough I have all the books on Ubuntu, I really recommend "Ubuntu Linux Bible".  Single best Ubuntu resource IMHO.

Have the book now - chapter 18 looks interesting about the gcc compiler.

Beginning Ubuntu Linux 2nd Edition from Apres has been top reading for me so far.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Jerry Muelver on July 22, 2007, 08:43:49 AM
My Ubuntu box reported a couple of weeks ago that the 7.04 Feisty Fawn upgrade was available for installation. So I clicked on "Install". I'm on a 19.2 kbaud landline connection. Announced dowload time for some 640 megabytes -- 4 days, 17 hours, 23 minutes. I went ahead with it, hitting "Cancel" from time to time to reclaim access to the internet when I needed it. The installation always resumed where it left off when I restarted. A week or so later, I had my new upgrade installed and humming along. I love this system!
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: GWS on July 22, 2007, 09:18:38 AM
Gosh!  .. that's what I call patience ..  :)

Graham
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Allan on July 22, 2007, 04:42:33 PM
And the more you work with Feisty the more it grows on you.
I am having a real 'party' with this Linux release.
Currently readin some X11 docs to gain more understanding. Impressive!
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: kahuna on July 23, 2007, 12:32:49 AM
Well my friend indeed,

For the first time in my linux exposure I now have a language which suits my thinking and will give me great pleasure in trying things out.

You Sir have created a pleasant way of geting into linux.

Maybe more to come I hope.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: kahuna on July 24, 2007, 01:28:32 AM
I have decompiled the help file of Ebasic and it works well with "Mozzilla" under Linux if there is interest or it is ok from Paul then perhaps it could be made available to the linux forum. Let me know.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: JimH on August 16, 2008, 06:18:25 PM
I'm trying out the new .5 version (Thanks, Paul!) using Xubuntu 8.04 and it mostly works. When linking though, I get this error: ld: cannot find -lc

Do I have something in the wrong place? And, by the way, where are all the files supposed to be placed? I thought it was noted in the Preview Version instructions, but sure can't find it.  ???
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Allan on August 16, 2008, 06:50:17 PM
JimH

Look in the folder that you got LinuxBasic from in the Downloads.
There are two links there
The first link shows where to place files.
The second link tells you of the other packages needed.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: JimH on August 16, 2008, 08:20:26 PM
Thanks for the refresher, Allen. Think I looked everywhere but there.

OK moved files to proper places and set permissions and still, when compiling keno get this:

Compiling...

keno.eba

No Errors



Linking...

ld: cannot find -lc
Error(s) linking keno.eba

Other ideas?
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on August 16, 2008, 09:58:28 PM
You are missing a dependency somewhere, it would be very unusual to be missing the C runtime library on a Linux distro, i don't think you could even boot without it.  Anyway....

Verify you have libgtk2.0-0 installed, and if that fails use synaptic to install glibc , which will include the latest C runtime. Or do it from a terminal:

apt-get install glibc

Paul.

Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Ionic Wind Support Team on August 17, 2008, 08:45:39 AM
The actual package is libc6-dev

Paul.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: JimH on August 27, 2008, 09:22:27 PM
Since Xubuntu 8.04 is a "stripped down" version, I guess that's one library they didn't load.

To get it running I needed to install libc6-dev which brought in 3 other packages (libc6 was installed, but not the -dev)

After that, it complained about missing gtk-x11-2.0 and the only way I could figure out to get it was to install libgtk2.0-dev which brought in about 45 other packages.

After that, everything I tried worked!  ;D  Xubuntu just takes a little more work on the environment to get everything EB needs.

Next, I'm going to see if it's possible to run it under Damn Small Linux - a really sparse distribution.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Allan on August 27, 2008, 11:38:07 PM
You sure had your work cut out for you Jim!

Just received my Ubuntu 8.04 CD.

Found a site that shows which distros have Gnome.

http://www.gnome.org/%7Edavyd/footware.shtml (http://www.gnome.org/%7Edavyd/footware.shtml)
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: spud on January 02, 2013, 10:02:39 AM
I've been away from the forum so my question might have already been answered, is there a version of ebasic avaliable for Linux?

I'm about to start building a robot that uses the Raspberry Pi board which uses Linux operating system. I'm wanting to use my existing Ai code which is written in ebasic. Using existing code would be easyer than exporting the code to Python which comes with the board.

Any help or updates on the Linux version would be great

Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: LarryMc on January 02, 2013, 10:28:51 AM
The last time anything was done with the linix version was back in 2008.
I don't even think the new owner has it where that version can be downloaded. 
The existing link is dead.
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Barney on January 03, 2013, 03:28:18 AM
I found an ebasic linux folder on one of my older HDD's, which obviously comes from the times when Paul was selling source CD's.
I can put the compressed file (including the whole directory) on Filepost or Uploaded.net but only if the present owner (Larry S.) gives me the permission to do so. PM to that effect has already been sent.

Barney
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Doc on January 03, 2013, 05:49:46 AM
Pretty sure I can supply the compiled product and possibly the sources if need be, Could be a few days since my laptop crashed on me yesterday. Right now I'm using a Nook reader to post this and won't have access to my USB drive for a bit...

-Doc-
Title: Re: Ionic Wind Linux Project
Post by: Rock Ridge Farm (Larry) on January 04, 2013, 04:19:18 PM
Actually I have worked on that on and off - just had not been any interest other than me I thought.
I have a very hacked up beta that I could get ready to go but I owe Larry Mc a couple of things first.


Larry