Pre-purchase questions

[Topdecker]

Hey, everyone.  I am considering purchasing IWBasic.  I've got a lengthy history with BASIC and later Visual Basic, but haven't done much since 2002 or so.  So I'm a bit beyond rusty in terms of syntax, but still pretty game conceptually.

As part of my work, I conduct various audits on Windows-based computers and as such, having full access to the Win32 API would be valuable to me as .  It has been a long while, but I recall being frustrated by only being able to use a fraction of of the Win32 API due to the way data was returned.  I am pretty sure that IWBasic can handle the full spectrum of DLL call and returns, but wanted to make sure.  Can IWBasic make use of the full range of Win32 API functions?  Furthermore, is it fairly easy?  (Having everything pre-declared is easy mode.)

Licensing.  Can I maintain a single licensed copy of IWBasic on a laptop and on a desktop? 

Documentation.  I tried to get motivated to learn a competitors version of BASIC, but it was horribly documented and parsing through examples to learn a language is not very efficient.  What I've seen here looks pretty good.  Is the language well documented with the default documentation?  Or should I plan on purchasing the extended documentation?

Thanks in advance!

Top

 

[LarryMc]

Can IWBasic make use of the full range of Win32 API functions?  Furthermore, is it fairly easy?  (Having everything pre-declared is easy mode.)

You can use all the windows 32 API you want. There are very few programs that I write that don't include calls to api functions. If you had a mind to you can write your programs entirely with the api(but I personally think that would be foolish).
By the same token you could write your program in assembly or mix and match as you so desire.
As to the api being pre-declared.  Got it covered. A long time supporter, Sapero, took it upon himself to construct an install program that will add a large portion of the declarations to IWBasic once IWBasic is installed on your computer.
You can download the installer from here and look at it here --
http://www.ionicwind.com/forums/index.php?topic=4983.msg37938#msg37938
This is the printout from when I ran it while responding in this post

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[LarryMc]

Since I am obviously biased I welcome anyone else's comments toward Topdecker's questions above.

[Bruce Peaslee]

The program is first rate. So is the support. I love it all.

[billhsln]

I have been using IWB for years.  Found it easy to learn and the people reply to questions in the forum pretty quickly.  Which gives you a vast knowledge base to pull from.   There are some quirks, but every language has them.  I have stuck with IWB because it is very versatile and can be run like the old QBASIC or as a Windows program.  I have used it to create games, utilities and conversion programs for both pleasure and work.  I have shared quite a few of the programs I have written and the same can be said for many of the other people who use this program.  I have found it to be the most QBASIC like than most of the other 'BASIC' dialects.

Bill

[Topdecker]

I went on and paid for a license.

I am also going to need a license for a laptop (it's a WinXP vm under a linux parent OS).

I am guessing that the licenses are bound to a unique number generated for OS/hardware combinations.  Is that correct?  If so, what happens when I upgrade operating systems / get a new computer?

Thanks

Top

[LarryMc]

I went on and paid for a license.

I am also going to need a license for a laptop (it's a WinXP vm under a linux parent OS).

I am guessing that the licenses are bound to a unique number generated for OS/hardware combinations.  Is that correct?  If so, what happens when I upgrade operating systems / get a new computer?

Your purchase of a single license for a single user will take care of everything up until the possible release of a version 3.0.
You will also see that hardware/software upgrades will not be a problem.

[Topdecker]

(Happiness)  Thanks, Larry, I will cease worrying about licensing stuff

Top

[Topdecker]

I grabbed the includes by Sapero (IWBasicHeaders-2011-05-05.zip), installed them, and tested the first one that was of interest to me - winbase.inc:

The entire program appears as:

$include "D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc"
end

Compiling from here results in:

File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc (170) Error: Unknown type ULONG_PTR
File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc (171) Error: Unknown type ULONG_PTR
File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc (173) Error: Unknown type PVOID

I removed the offending lines only to have them replaced with more...

File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase2.inc (170) Error: Unknown type DWORD
File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase2.inc (171) Error: Unknown type LPVOID
File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase2.inc (172) Error: Unknown type BOOL

Obviously the compiler only reports the first 3 errors encountered and then stops.  Wasn't aware of it, but nice to know.

Is there some other include file that I should be adding first? I kinda wanted to play around with the CopyFileEx function - I've always admired a little tool called Teracopy and wanted replicate parts of it.

Top

[LarryMc]

I thought I had mentioned it before but maybe I wasn't being clear enough; I'm getting old.

Sapero's include files weren't setup to be selectively picked through by the user.
Doing so will result in exactly what you ran into.

To properly benefit from Sapero's include files you do the following:
Add $include "windowssdk.inc" at the beginning of each source file that uses one or more of the functions in the windows sdk.
That is all.
The compiler will figure out what is needed and what isn't.  Nothing will bloat your program that you don't need.
I have never found a need to search through all those include files in order to use a function.

[LarryMc]

By topic definition this topic should be restricted to asking pre-purchase questions.

Non pre-purchase questions should be posted in the appropriate board and sub board in the forums.

Doing so facilitates browsing a board for related information to subjects(as close as we can split it up)

[LarryMc]

The entire program appears as:

Code Select Expand

$include "D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc"
end
Compiling from here results in:

File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc (170) Error: Unknown type ULONG_PTR
File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc (171) Error: Unknown type ULONG_PTR
File: D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc (173) Error: Unknown type PVOID

I removed the offending lines only to have them replaced with more...

To me, this doesn't constitute a program since it doesn't do anything even with out the errors.

Code Select Expand

$include "D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc"
end
and, you said you
deleted the offending lines.
NEVER EVER delete lines from any of those include files - you are not only breaking those functions/definitions you are breaking everything else that may depend on them  in other include files.

[Topdecker]

Larry -

I'm never going to provide any more code than necessary to illustrate a problem and what I provided was more than up to that task.  I regard it as a professional courtesy not to burden anyone with more than is needed to show whatever it is that I might want help with. 

Here is the solution - I copied this code fragment from elsewhere in the forums:

Code Select Expand

$ifndef WIN32
$define WIN32
$endif

$ifdef WIN32
$define WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN
$endif

$include "windowssdk.inc"

Once the above was added, "$include "D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc"" ceased generating compiler errors.  FWIW, there are plenty of INC files that work great without needing all the compiler directives or the windowssdk.inc - but they were largely designed for use with Visual Basic as opposed to C.

I found the solution in the forums, a post from a support team member named Paul.  Experimentation indicates that including windowssdk.inc is the critical portion of the solution.

Top

[Sam]

Greetings Top and welcome.

If you are like me and like to program with SDK then just include windowssdk.inc. Now, having said that, it's not the same as windows.inc. Some changes are made to function names because they conflict with the IWBasic function names. Not really an issue but you may occasionally need to search the includes to find the substitution name. As an example: LoadImage in windows.inc is _LoadImage in windowssdk.inc. No need to alter the supplied includes.

[Topdecker]

If you are like me and like to program with SDK then just include windowssdk.inc. Now, having said that, it's not the same as windows.inc. Some changes are made to function names because they conflict with the IWBasic function names. Not really an issue but you may occasionally need to search the includes to find the substitution name. As an example: LoadImage in windows.inc is _LoadImage in windowssdk.inc. No need to alter the supplied includes.

Yup, I got IWBasic primarily to have a handy programming tool that allows me to get at various APIs.

I appreciate the warnings about windowssdk.inc naming conventions and conflicts.  I will be sure to ferret through the inc files and study the functions and data structures before attempting to use them.

Top

[LarryMc]

I'm never going to provide any more code than necessary to illustrate a problem and what I provided was more than up to that task.  I regard it as a professional courtesy not to burden anyone with more than is needed to show whatever it is that I might want help with. 

In this particular case you are 100% correct.  However, more often than not, what a provider considers ample info and what a potential helper thinks is required are two different things.  No biggy.

Here is the solution - I copied this code fragment from elsewhere in the forums:

Code Select Expand

$ifndef WIN32
$define WIN32
$endif

$ifdef WIN32
$define WIN32_LEAN_AND_MEAN
$endif

$include "windowssdk.inc"

The only line of code that is needed is

Code Select Expand

$include "windowssdk.inc"
If you like to type you can add those other 6 lines if you want to; but it want have any real impact one way or the other.

Once the above was added, "$include "D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc"" ceased generating compiler errors.  FWIW, there are plenty of INC files that work great without needing all the compiler directives or the windowssdk.inc - but they were largely designed for use with Visual Basic as opposed to C.

I hope the above isn't implying that you have both

Code Select Expand

$include "windowssdk.inc"and

Code Select Expand

$include "D:\Program Files (x86)\IWBDev2.5\include\winbase.inc
in your source file.

I found the solution in the forums, a post from a support team member named Paul. 

Paul was the creator of the precursor to IWBasic.  LarryS purchased the language and forums from him.
Paul never had any connection to IWBasic.  Although every attempt is to make IWBasic backward compatible with its predecessors and 95%+ of post bearing Paul's name apply there are some post that do not.

Experimentation indicates that including windowssdk.inc is the critical portion of the solution.

Which is why I've said it as many times as I have.

[LarryMc]

As an example: LoadImage in windows.inc is _LoadImage in windowssdk.inc. No need to alter the supplied includes.

Not exactly correct.
IWBasic comes "out of the box" with a windows.inc file.
If you read the comments at the beginning of that file you will see that it is a partial conversion of the win32api for VB6.0 for use with a predecessor of IWBasic.
If a declared function has the same name as an IWBasic function the declaration in windows.inc is aliased to rename it with a preceding underscore.  another common example is SENDMESSAGE

When Sapero created windowssdk.inc (which has all the other includes he converted nested inside that one include) he followed that same convention.  In his conversion _LoadImage is actually in winuser.inc.

Note: Saperos windowssdk.inc does not use windows.inc.  If you download and install Saperos you don't ever use windows.inc again in any new programs.  It's still there so old programs can be recompile with modification.  But even with old programs if you substitute windowssdk.inc for windows.inc it compiles fine.

So, if you want to use an api command you can type the name in; if the name changes to the color of reserved words in IWBasic then prepend the underscore and continue on(providing you are using one of the two inc files we've been talking about.) If it won't compile with the underscore then that means it was never aliased(most likely to happen if you are using windows.inc)

That's why I have said numerous times that I put  $include "windowssdk.inc" at the beginning of every source file. If I don't need it it doesn't hurt anything for it to be there and if it turns out I do need it its already there.

Hope this helps.